Uptown dallas vs uptown houston vs midtown atlanta (potential) (skyscrapers, market, living)
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Nope, the trains have always been crowded during rush hour and on game/event days.
You lived in Atlanta? I thought you just went to 'Bama.
The immediate fix is improving headways. During the recession, they were scaled back for cost savings. Since that time however, a new CEO has come in and put the system back in the black. Headways will be increasing later this spring.
I wouldn't see the crowding as a "problem" per se (just annoying) since MARTA can easily handle the load, and it only occurs when it should. It also is most prominent on the Gold and Red lines which cut through Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, to Perimeter Center as well as the airport. This area has the vast majority of jobs in the metro and iis also the densest populated area. Crowded trains at rush hour are a good thing given those same folks would be driving if it were not for MARTA.
I spent quite a bit of time in Atlanta with family. If the headways changed, that makes sense. I guess when you said MARTA already looks like that when I posted that video of what MARTA could one day look like, I thought you were trying to say that many times, at rush hour, people can't board the trains because they are too packed. Is that what you meant?
What are the headways currently? Aren't they already every 6 minutes or so? Midtown with a density of 50,000+ people per square mile in the future will not be able to absorb that level of population if the trains are packed already to the point where people can't board when the trains come into the station's in a low density neighborhood. Midtown has less than 20,000 people per square mile currently so this poses a MAJOR capacity issue going forward if MARTA trains are as packed as you claim.
This poses a real problem for development in Midtown Atlanta. Should the city build thousands of housing units in Midtown in hopes people will not need cars even if MARTA is at capacity at the Midtown, Arts Center, and North Avenue Station's? The Nation Planning Conference is in Atlanta this year so I wonder if they will talk about this. MARTA will become useless for Midtown residents if they can't board trains until two or three trains have passed like WMATA many times.
From a transportation planning perspective, I don't see how Atlanta can deal with such a major core capacity problem with the way the current system is built. It's amazing the trains can be so packed with such a low ridership share for the region. I will be visiting Atlanta this year for the APA conference so I will be able to see what the current state of the system is. MARTA seems to have the same core capacity issues as WMATA which is amazing considering how small the regional coverage is for MARTA. It may be because everyone in the region is taking one line north-south.
While i hate MARTA, I have always argued on this thread that Midtown has by far the most potential of the 3. It has things others don't, like Georgia Tech. MARTA is a dismal system that lives out its stereotypes and isn't a reason for Midtown's success. Some educated young professional isn't moving to Midtown because he/she has access to MARTA rail and heaven forbid bus. Everyone in Midtown still has cars and drives, but they do appreciate the amenities and relative walkability, which is excellent for the south and for the metro and will continue to get even better (not because of MARTA, but because of a critical mass of other important things, like new apartments, jobs, institutions, amenities, restaurants, bars, nightlife, concentration of young people, etc).
So you saying all the Young professional living in Midtown and west midtown Don't care anything about Marta? because when I lived in Atlanta that was a selling point for me. I had to find places that were close to Marta train. Why because even though I had a car I wanted to make sure I was still able to get to work by train if something happened to my car.
You are so wrong if you think no young Professionals are riding Marta. Go back to Atlanta take the train from Peachtree center to Northsprings between 4 and 7pm and tell me what u see packed on the trains. Whatever stereotypes that are there are gone as more ethinic groups are riding Marta these days.
I guess your point in showing those videos was to show that the MARTA subway line can hold way more passengers than the DART subway line. But at least Dallas has the option to get that subway experience even if it has 2 cars to Atlanta's 5 or 6.
Wish Houston could do it.
Dallas residence arent getting a real subway experience based off 1 station. And alot of the times there 8 cars
This is what u call a real subway terminal Experience. This goes underground for 3 miles straight not to mention there are several more underground stations on the line
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,486 posts, read 15,009,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I spent quite a bit of time in Atlanta with family. If the headways changed, that makes sense. I guess when you said MARTA already looks like that when I posted that video of what MARTA could one day look like, I thought you were trying to say that many times, at rush hour, people can't board the trains because they are too packed. Is that what you meant?
Yes, during rush hour it is not uncommon to be unable to board a train (especially in Midtown) due to it being crowded. But honestly this isn't I would be concerned with. It only happens when you the most people are hitting the system and the worst that could happen is that you would have to wait for the next train.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
What are the headways currently? Aren't they already every 6 minutes or so? Midtown with a density of 50,000+ people per square mile in the future will not be able to absorb that level of population if the trains are packed already to the point where people can't board when the trains come into the station's in a low density neighborhood. Midtown has less than 20,000 people per square mile currently so this poses a MAJOR capacity issue going forward if MARTA trains are as packed as you claim.
This poses a real problem for development in Midtown Atlanta. Should the city build thousands of housing units in Midtown in hopes people will not need cars even if MARTA is at capacity at the Midtown, Arts Center, and North Avenue Station's? The Nation Planning Conference is in Atlanta this year so I wonder if they will talk about this. MARTA will become useless for Midtown residents if they can't board trains until two or three trains have passed like WMATA many times.
From a transportation planning perspective, I don't see how Atlanta can deal with such a major core capacity problem with the way the current system is built. It's amazing the trains can be so packed with such a low ridership share for the region. I will be visiting Atlanta this year for the APA conference so I will be able to see what the current state of the system is. MARTA seems to have the same core capacity issues as WMATA which is amazing considering how small the regional coverage is for MARTA. It may be because everyone in the region is taking one line north-south.
The crowding comes less from Midtowners and more from people commuting to other districts. It's compunded by the fact that the lines have 15 minute headways outside the core and 8 minute headways within Downtown and Midtown. In a few weeks we'll be returning to 10 minute system wide headways and 5 minutes in the core, so it should mitigate the issue some.
The larger issue though is that, as you stated, the only one for one to travel crosstown at the moment is to go through Midtown and Downtown. Once the Beltline and crosstown streetcar routes are in place though, that will mitigate the problem. However, as it is now it's not that detremental to the neighborhood. If one works and lives in Midtown, it's not so big that walking or taking a cab would be an issue. And besides, there is a reason happy hour exists.
In terms of capacity, MARTA is quite beefy and can handle several times the daily traffic it currently does. For example, during the Olympics it was handling an average of 900k trips a day and that was before the Red Line was built!
I spent quite a bit of time in Atlanta with family. If the headways changed, that makes sense. I guess when you said MARTA already looks like that when I posted that video of what MARTA could one day look like, I thought you were trying to say that many times, at rush hour, people can't board the trains because they are too packed. Is that what you meant?
What are the headways currently? Aren't they already every 6 minutes or so? Midtown with a density of 50,000+ people per square mile in the future will not be able to absorb that level of population if the trains are packed already to the point where people can't board when the trains come into the station's in a low density neighborhood. Midtown has less than 20,000 people per square mile currently so this poses a MAJOR capacity issue going forward if MARTA trains are as packed as you claim.
This poses a real problem for development in Midtown Atlanta. Should the city build thousands of housing units in Midtown in hopes people will not need cars even if MARTA is at capacity at the Midtown, Arts Center, and North Avenue Station's? The Nation Planning Conference is in Atlanta this year so I wonder if they will talk about this. MARTA will become useless for Midtown residents if they can't board trains until two or three trains have passed like WMATA many times.
From a transportation planning perspective, I don't see how Atlanta can deal with such a major core capacity problem with the way the current system is built. It's amazing the trains can be so packed with such a low ridership share for the region. I will be visiting Atlanta this year for the APA conference so I will be able to see what the current state of the system is. MARTA seems to have the same core capacity issues as WMATA which is amazing considering how small the regional coverage is for MARTA. It may be because everyone in the region is taking one line north-south.
Between 4 and 6pm trains are really packed and they run like every 10 mins during that time. I use to take train to my Job in Perimeter and it was always packed. Sometimes they run 8 car trains because it gets packed. As the population grows Im pretty sure they will run more trains frequently.
Between 4 and 6pm trains are really packed and they run like every 10 mins during that time. I use to take train to my Job in Perimeter and it was always packed. Sometimes they run 8 car trains because it gets packed. As the population grows Im pretty sure they will run more trains frequently.
Ok, nevermind, that's why they're packed. Running trains every 10 minutes during rush hour is awful which explains why they're packed. I think MARTA is built just like WMATA so they should, when demand calls for it, be able to run trains every 3-5 minutes during rush hour.
Yes, during rush hour it is not uncommon to be unable to board a train (especially in Midtown) due to it being crowded. But honestly this isn't I would be concerned with. It only happens when you the most people are hitting the system and the worst that could happen is that you would have to wait for the next train.
The crowding comes less from Midtowners and more from people commuting to other districts. It's compunded by the fact that the lines have 15 minute headways outside the core and 8 minute headways within Downtown and Midtown. In a few weeks we'll be returning to 10 minute system wide headways and 5 minutes in the core, so it should mitigate the issue some.
The larger issue though is that, as you stated, the only one for one to travel crosstown at the moment is to go through Midtown and Downtown. Once the Beltline and crosstown streetcar routes are in place though, that will mitigate the problem. However, as it is now it's not that detremental to the neighborhood. If one works and lives in Midtown, it's not so big that walking or taking a cab would be an issue. And besides, there is a reason happy hour exists.
In terms of capacity, MARTA is quite beefy and can handle several times the daily traffic it currently does. For example, during the Olympics it was handling an average of 900k trips a day and that was before the Red Line was built!
That explains a lot. I thought trains were running every 5 minutes in Atlanta. I was concerned when you said trains were over capacity because I assumed you meant trains were over capacity with 5 minute headways. The overcrowding should end when headways return to normal. Believe me, you wouldn't want MARTA to be that packed with 3-5 minute headways going through undeveloped low density neighborhoods. That would spell major problems for the next 30 years. With full buildout, Atlanta will be able to trade their current problems in for new high density problems lol...... Trust me, we're dealing with it right now. There are capacity issues with high density and high transit ridership and the solution is billions of dollars SMH....
^^^MARTA is not packed. Anyone who has ridden other systems has relative experience, and MARTA is one of the least crowded systems in the country, let alone the world (save for when all the suburbanites take it in to events). I rode it to work from Midtown to Buckhead a couple years ago when ridership was actually higher, and 2 things: it was not even close to being packed and it wasn't a train filled with professionals despite the Midtown-Buckhead-Perimeter route.
That being said, to quell all the Atlanta people who decide to argue this point as if MARTA is one of the best systems in the country, I still say Midtown has the most potential, is already the most interesting, and none of it is because of MARTA!
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23,474 posts, read 44,128,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3
^^^MARTA is not packed. Anyone who has ridden other systems has relative experience, and MARTA is one of the least crowded systems in the country, let alone the world (save for when all the suburbanites take it in to events). I rode it to work from Midtown to Buckhead a couple years ago when ridership was actually higher, and 2 things: it was not even close to being packed and it wasn't a train filled with professionals despite the Midtown-Buckhead-Perimeter route.
That being said, to quell all the Atlanta people who decide to argue this point as if MARTA is one of the best systems in the country, I still say Midtown has the most potential, is already the most interesting, and none of it is because of MARTA!
MARTA's not crowded? Somebody explain that to my fellow riders next time so that I have a place to sit.
MARTA's not crowded? Somebody explain that to my fellow riders next time so that I have a place to sit.
There seems to be some discrepancy on what crowded is and what crowded isn’t. I think for many large system like MTA in NYC or WMATA in DC, trains during rush hour don’t see an uptick in crowds during basketball or baseball games. There really isn’t a difference in the level of train traffic. It’s packed to capacity no matter what is going on. I don’t know if MARTA is like that so I can’t say, however, I know MARTA has extremely low ridership compared to other systems so maybe that plays a role in what other people are saying. Again, I don’t ride MARTA daily like many of you so it may be packed like you guys are saying.
I don't think it really matter anyway. MARTA ridership will grow as density continues to increase in Atlanta. Midtown can add thousands of residents.
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