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This is the most comprehensive data I've come across on CBDs. The data is derived largely from 2008 ACS 3-year estimates. This report defines a "CBD" as contiguous census tracts with the greatest concentration of commerical buildings taller than 10 floors and excludes midrise to lowrise employment areas around the CBD. A skyscraper (or in DC's case a 12-story building) will invariably have a greater employment density than a three-story warehouse.
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By total number of jobs, the Top 10 cities are ranked this way:
NYC - 1,981,305 (7.82 sq. miles)
Chicago - 500,450 (3.36 sq. miles)
Washington, DC - 379,215 (2.30 sq. miles)
San Francisco - 297,420 (2.34 sq. miles)
Boston - 242,900 (1.23 sq. miles)
Philadelphia - 239,625 (1.71 sq. miles)
Atlanta - 172,975 (2.17 sq. miles)
Houston - 169,495 (1.53 sq. miles)
Seattle - 163,830 (1.48 sq. miles)
Los Angeles - 136,585 (1.25 sq. miles)
Nobody takes Wendell Cox / Demographia seriously. These numbers look way off. The stats Kid Philly posted seem WAY more lined up with reality.
Those numbers just seem really low, for a lot of cities.
The big issue is, do you care what the restaurant looks like? I think that may be a major difference between D.C. and L.A. People don't want to eat in places without nice decor. It's the populace I guess. There are some pretty good food places in the black community which doesn't really care about that stuff. It's a socio-economic issue. The same is true in all the low income ethnic communities in the region. There aren't many of them in the city other than black. History matters in this subject guys.
For cheap hole-in-the-wall ethnic eats, definitely not. You expect that its going to be a bit grimy and that's part of the adventure.
For middle-of-the-road and higher end places, yes- of course I expect better decor. And LA excels in that regard. We have interior design firms like Spacecraft and Gulla Jonsdottir that specialize in slick restaurant interiors, just as I'm sure every other food city has. And we typically sweep the Restaurant Design Awards. The 2013 winners:
Its not like DC has a lock on slick restaurant interiors. I would say that Stephen Starr started the trend back in the mid 90s in Philly with his restaurant empire.
Nobody takes Wendell Cox / Demographia seriously. These numbers look way off. The stats Kid Philly posted seem WAY more lined up with reality.
Those numbers just seem really low, for a lot of cities.
You don't have to take him seriously. There are either that many jobs in the defined areas as the site says there are or there aren't.
What do you find so objectionable about the data he's presented (which comes from looking at Census tracts). It's either right or it's not.
And 500,000 people is A LOT. The Loop basically contains Atlanta's entire population in a 3.36 mile area (during the day, that is). Do you think that's low? Do you think it's really around a million or something?
For cheap hole-in-the-wall ethnic eats, definitely not. You expect that its going to be a bit grimy and that's part of the adventure.
For middle-of-the-road and higher end places, yes- of course I expect better decor. And LA excels in that regard. We have interior design firms like Spacecraft and Gulla Jonsdottir that specialize in slick restaurant interiors, just as I'm sure every other food city has. And we typically sweep the Restaurant Design Awards. The 2013 winners:
Its not like DC has a lock on slick restaurant interiors. I would say that Stephen Starr started the trend back in the mid 90s in Philly with his restaurant empire.
I think you missed my point. Most people in D.C. proper in that income bracket don't want to eat in hole-in-the-wall places here. Like I said, maybe it's the people. If it's not upscale and yuppy, they aren't going. That's my point. They cringe in those places. Didn't you live here? You don't remember?
It wasn't the price per se that bothered me. It was what we got in exchange for the price we paid.
That's interesting because most people and critics think that place is wonderful. What did you get? The rule of thumb is you always need to go twice to get a real assessment.
You don't have to take him seriously. There are either that many jobs in the defined areas as the site says there are or there aren't.
What do you find so objectionable about the data he's presented (which comes from looking at Census tracts). It's either right or it's not.
And 500,000 people is A LOT. The Loop basically contains Atlanta's entire population in a 3.36 mile area (during the day, that is). Do you think that's low? Do you think it's really around a million or something?
Well those numbers are jobs, not population right?
I think the numbers for every city below Chicago seem too low.
It seems strange that KidPhilly's posted data has Brooklyn with over 300k jobs but Demographia has it with 50k jobs.
Well those numbers are jobs, not population right?
Yes. It's just looking at jobs. I also like the source because it provides commuter data as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
I think the numbers for every city below Chicago seem too low.
The report (the one I posted) has SF at 297,240 (for commerical downtown tracts). The one kidphilly posted has it at 299,659. For Philly, the numbers are 239,625 and 227,304 (a decrease). For DC, it's 379,215 and 380,819.
It appears the two studies are using the same sources. Their definitions of "CBD" may differ (kidphilly's report is also looking at employment outside of commercial tracts). I don't really mind either approach so long as the sources tell us how large the footprint is. That way we can compare job densities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup
It seems strange that KidPhilly's posted data has Brooklyn with over 300k jobs but Demographia has it with 50k jobs.
No way Downtown Brooklyn has 300,000 jobs. That source says it's 283,475 in the commercial tracts, which is about on par with San Francisco or Boston. The source below is from the early 2000s and estimates the number to be around 70,000.
Yes. It's just looking at jobs. I also like the source because it provides commuter data as well.
The report (the one I posted) has SF at 297,240 (for commerical downtown tracts). The one kidphilly posted has it at 299,659. For Philly, the numbers are 239,625 and 227,304 (a decrease). For DC, it's 379,215 and 380,819.
It appears the two studies are using the same sources. Their definitions of "CBD" may differ (kidphilly's report is also looking at employment outside of commercial tracts). I don't really mind either approach so long as the sources tell us how large the footprint is. That way we can compare job densities.
No way Downtown Brooklyn has 300,000 jobs. That source says it's 283,475 in the commercial tracts, which is about on par with San Francisco or Boston. The source below is from the early 2000s and estimates the number to be around 70,000.
Job densities are directly in the report - they used commercial cluster of census tracts - area covered can be calculated based off the numbers and density.
Job densities are directly in the report - they used commercial cluster of census tracts - area covered can be calculated based off the numbers and density.
They also have maps in the report
That's true. I guess I just liked the fact that Demographia tells you how large the footprint is while also providing density figures. That's why I said it's the most comprehensive report I've seen. It also includes info on commuting data.
But that Brooklyn figure is about as wrong as wrong gets. 300,000 is an astronomical number of jobs for a pretty weak (comparatively) CBD. And the city's own numbers contradict it. Unless, of course, one believes that Downtown Brooklyn gained 230,000 jobs last decade.
Job densities are directly in the report - they used commercial cluster of census tracts - area covered can be calculated based off the numbers and density.
They also have maps in the report
Do you still believe all the CBD's at one mile buffer zones are different size land masses?
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