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Regarding higher education: Atlanta likely still has the edge, but it certainly isn't a walk in the park. Obviously it's a pretty big victory for Atlanta if just looking at schools within city limits, but then again I don't even know that Emory is within the City Limits. Case and Georgia Tech seem to sort of offset each other with similar prestige (Case is rated a bit higher but Georgia Tech still may be more well known), I don't know about Georgia State vs. Cleveland State, I'm sure that Cleveland State has the advantage in some disciplines but it wouldn't surprise me that overall Georgia State would come out on top. However, many, many northeastern Ohio students end up attending Kent or Akron, about a half hour to the south, and I would venture that those are at least as prestigious if not more than GSU. Also, I would guess (though again, not positive), that both Miami (OH) and Ohio State would top UGA as the best in state public universities which to attend, not that UGA is bad, but that both M(OH) and OSU have been considered public ivies recently. So obviously still Atlanta since I think having the schools in the city weighs more heavily, but not a slam dunk though.
Also, on Civil Rights, while obviously Cleveland didn't have anyone as influential as MLK there at any points in time, they have had a relatively significant history. To start, Oberlin College, in 1833, became the first university in the US to admit students regardless of race or gender. Also, both Cleveland and Oberlin were major spots for abolitionists, with St. John's Church, built in 1836 becoming known as Station Hope, the last stop along the Underground Railroad before reaching Canada. Sojourner Truth gave her immortalized speech "Ain't I a Woman?" at the 1851 women's convention in neighboring Akron. After the war, many African Americans in search of work and people from the south in general moved towards Cleveland (this did happen other places too though), which added somewhat of a southern culture into what was already sort of a hybrid Midwest/East Coast city. Some other famous residents of Cleveland related to civil rights were Jesse Owens, who broke 3 world records within an hour, followed by winning 4 gold medals at Hitler's Berlin Olympics, crushing the Aryan supremacy myth, Larry Doby, the first person to break the color barrier in the American League, and Carl Stokes, the first African American mayor of a major US city.
Not that those really matter that much to the debate, but everyone can use some interesting history : ).
That's fair, and I guess that's why it's interesting to get perspective from both sides on it. Regarding sports, both have three franchises, and a decent amount of college sports close at hand, so I can't say there's a clear winner. However, I will say that the way in which sports is followed in Cleveland (excluding possibly UGA), strikes me as being on a different level than it is in Atlanta. I remember hearing stories about Hawks games where tickets were available for walk up for playoff games in recent years, which would be unheard of in Cleveland (although I suppose that could be seen as a positive), it strikes me that in general, Atlantans are much more "casual" about their sports viewing habits. Another plus for Cleveland regarding sports is the fact that all three stadiums are located right downtown, and so it almost feels like they are inviting people into the city to watch, like a neighborhood feel. I didn't get that in Atlanta, it didn't strike me there were any large scale places to tailgate before Falcons games, and so the Hawks are the only one who could provide that experience. However, since both have 3 & 3 as was mentioned, that's why I'd call it a draw, being fully unbiased.
Food is one that is very objective, and probably the worst one to do. At the end of the day honestly if you care and know what you're doing, just about nothing beats a home cooked meal. So, having a decent number of good food places isn't hard. However, what I think Cleveland does that I'm not sure Atlanta can match is really making eating an experience all over the city (and again, I could be wrong on this), but I doubt that Atlanta has the number of places like Little Italy, East 4th Street, Ohio City, Tremont, Shaker Square, Chagrin Falls, Hudson I could go on and on. That doesn't mean Atlanta's is necessarily worse, but just something feels special about feeling like you're eating at a family place that hasn't changed the recipe (or the architecture) since they left Ellis Island.
I would definitely disagree on history. I'll give Atlanta the fact that it played a significant role in the civil rights movement, and could quite possibly be considered the capital of the American southeast, and hosting an olympics isn't too bad either.
However, Cleveland, and the Cleveland area in general is one that influenced the history of the world in enormous ways, and some of the things started there have been moved around the country. Electricity? First city with electric streetlights, Thomas Edison grew up half hour west of downtown. Oil? Cleveland started the oil boom and drilling for keresene oil, without quite frankly, modern society as we know it, would not have existed. John D Rockefeller, far and away the richest man to walk the earth left his mark on the world, and on the area, big time. Rubber and tires were also there, and Cleveland played a pioneering role in the auto movement. In large part because of this, Cleveland for several years had more millionaires than any other city in the world. Take a look at many of the basic lifestyle amenities people have today, and Cleveland was at the forefront of them, including the nation's first large scale indoor shopping center, The Arcade, the nation's first Historical Society, and the nation's first and still one of the most beautiful streetcar suburbs, Shaker Heights. If looking at military history, an hour to the west of town is where the absolutely pivotal Battle of Lake Erie took place, and is still home to a monument that is effectively the largest lighthouse in the world. An hour to the south is Bolivar, where one of the westernmost American Revolutionary War forts is. As far as social influence, I would also say it was quite large, as many prominent entertainers have come from Cleveland, and the juxtaposition it sits at between the Northeast, Southeast and Midwest really makes it a diverse hub of culture in any direction. East Liverpool, to the southeast of town was where the national land survey of the US was started.
Many of those other ones you mentioned were subjective, and so I won't comment on those, but I will say that Cleveland's RTA system is far better than you would likely guess for a city of it's size. It was the first city in the US to have a rail system that connected to it's airport, and has been voted before as the best public transit system in North America, though I don't know about how that rating was established. I do know that it is sort of hard to compare transit systems, from what I have heard, both have some safety concerns in certain sections, but that may be people just being overly paranoid. I know that both connect to the airport and appear to connect to major sections across the city. Cleveland has more stations established (50 as opposed to Atlanta's 38), I know that Cleveland also has a free busline taking people to access points around downtown, as well as an express bus which takes people from downtown to the Medical Area or to Lakewood (somewhat of an extension/streetcar city), and seems to run efficiently without delay and at most hours (however Cleveland's stations could use some TLC).
I don't deny that the Emory University Hospital provides quality care to many people there, and so it isn't that big of a difference, but in the most recent rankings, Cleveland finished in the Top 4 group along with MGH, JHH and Mayo, and had the most highest ranked disciplines apart from Mayo, including a huge victory with cardiology (that's gotta count for more). Because of that and it's global reputation, it attracts medical tourism from many of the most esteemed of the world's wealth, including Arab Oil Magnates, Prince Charles, Oprah Winfrey and more historically, William Randolph Hearst. They have an interesting session there called "Ideas for Tomorrow" where recent speakers have included Ben Bernanke, Jack Welch and Lord Norman Foster. Cleveland also has the Case Western Reserve University Hospital, which even as a 2nd hospital in the city, I wouldn't be surprised if is considered in the Top 15 in the US. I may be wrong on this stat, but I believe that with all their branches around the region, they end up employing over 100,000 in the metro, a major reason why Cleveland is home to the new Global Center for Health and Innovation.
I also respectfully disagree with the fact that Atlanta surpasses Cleveland regarding theater and festivals, while also acknowledging that with the Fox and other acts there, Atlanta is quite possibly super strong in that regard. Playhouse Square in Cleveland is considered the largest performing arts center/theater district outside of NYC, and has 9 theaters around there, along with the Cleveland Playhouse which I believe just won a Tony and various other smaller companies throughout the region. It generally gets every single one of the major broadway touring acts for the year, and supposedly have a season ticket holder base of 29,000 along with getting over 1,000 events a year. Not sure what is meant regarding festivals, whether you are talking about music or cultural events. Regarding music, since Cleveland is home to the RNR HOF, they have the fortune of getting the induction ceremony and concerts including Ringo Starr like they had a few weeks ago. Cleveland gets most all traveling tours to stop there, and really has a robust local/independent music scene, with a House of Blues downtown, and places like Beachland Ballroom and Grog Shop receiving national acclaim. In regards to festivals, Cleveland has an ethnic festival for just about every ethnicity you could think of, one of possibly the 5 largest St. Paddy's Day parades in the US, and something called the Feast of the Assumption, an Italian street festival which attracts over 100,000 people over a few days, just to name a few.
Yawn. Can't believe I actually read all this. Whatever.
I always like it when an OP creates a thread claiming to be "fair and unbiased" and then comes out shooting from both hips with loaded guns straight from the Chamber of Commerce as soon as anybody challenges their homerism.
I think you overlooked another important category to judge the 2 cities, and that would be City/In-town neighborhoods. Cleveland has Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, Little Italy, Gordon Square Arts District, etc, while Atlanta has neighborhoods such as Virginia-Highlands, Little Five Points, East Atlanta Village, Midtown, and Buckhead.
In terms of Culture, don't forget that Cleveland has the West Side Market and the Market District, while Atlanta just started its public market (Ponce De) like a year ago.
Also, in terms of culture, Atlanta is a hip hop and R&B mecca.
In education, Atlanta has 3 prominent historically black colleges - Morehouse, Spellman, and Clark Atlanta.
In terms of Culture, don't forget that Cleveland has the West Side Market and the Market District, while Atlanta just started its public market (Ponce De) like a year ago.
Also, though it hasn't been mentioned in this thread, I always found it humorous how *some* people from Cleveland brag about the (now canceled) TVland sitcom "Hot in Cleveland," the whole premise of which made fun of Cleveland. And the show was shot in LA.
By most accounts, Atlanta is now the No. 3 center for entertainment and media in this country (after NYC and LA), with film and TV production far surpassing R&B and hip hop as far as impact on the local economy. Cleveland, despite the presence of the Rock and Roll HOF, isn't on the radar.
Well, we paid a lot in corporate welfare for those tv shows. I've mentioned this before, but some cheerleaders don't care how much corporate welfare we give or subsidies in place... just as long as we can make silly talking points on an internet forum about how many shows are filmed here.
Well, we paid a lot in corporate welfare for those tv shows. I've mentioned this before, but some cheerleaders don't care how much corporate welfare we give or subsidies in place... just as long as we can make silly talking points on an internet forum about how many shows are filmed here.
Even before that, Atlanta had a substantial media presence with Ted Turner, TP Studios, the Weather Channel, etc.
Yawn. Can't believe I actually read all this. Whatever.
I always like it when an OP creates a thread claiming to be "fair and unbiased" and then comes out shooting from both hips with loaded guns straight from the Chamber of Commerce as soon as anybody challenges their homerism.
Isn't that just SOOOO C-D?!
I was merely naming completely accurate facts about the city. Isn't that what the point of comparing cities is supposed to be about? None of the things I mentioned are untrue. I don't doubt that Atlanta is a big market for entertainment and TV, though I don't know how much bearing that has on the average person's life in ATL though. Also, to be fair, even if I did display some homerism and noting my city's positive accomplishments, didn't you turn around and do the exact same thing?
The series centers on three has-been entertainment industry veterans (Valerie Bertinelli, Jane Leeves, and Wendie Malick) from Los Angeles who find a more welcoming and less shallow and youth-obsessed community in Cleveland, Ohio.
This was the description from the website. I've never watched the show, but that hardly seems to be a central theme.
I figured this would be an interesting topic. Two cities that have very different backgrounds and are hard to compare, but since the Cavs will hopefully be taking care of business on the hardwood this week, why not. I actually enjoy both, and as such would prefer the discussion remain good natured, and mainly just inform people about the positive qualities in both cities (Cleveland is where I was from, but Atlanta has been a thought of mine, because I like the idea of being a short drive from GSMNP during the summers, and a compromise on where I eventually live). So, here goes.
Weather: Atlanta (I enjoy winter well enough, and I know Cleveland likely has an advantage from Early May to Early October at least, but it seems that a majority of the population has a strong aversion to cold weather). Theme Parks: Even (Atlanta does have a Six Flags 15 minutes from downtown, but Cleveland has the roller coaster capital of the world a little under an hour away.) Museums/Culture: Cleveland (Atlanta certainly doesn't do poorly here with the Carlos, CFB HOF, Georgia Aquarium & Fox Theatre, but Cleveland's collection of museums and access is truly remarkable, perhaps about the best per capita of any city I'm aware of. Parks: Cleveland (Cleveland Metroparks consistently rated among the best in America, & CVNP) Scenery: Even (Atlanta with more terrain, Cleveland with the coastline and valleys and unique geology, and some hills also, as well as stargazing opportunities within 40 minutes of downtown) Sports: Even Economy: Atlanta (but Cleveland is making a comeback, and has some advantages) Location: Even (Both with fantastic locations) History: Cleveland (Atlanta isn't bad though) Higher Education: Atlanta (by a nudge, Oberlin and Case are great schools) K-12 Education (Overall Region): Cleveland "Big City" feel: I'm gonna say Atlanta, because it has double the population and more tall buildings, but in some ways, Cleveland has more East Coast, classic big city amenities. Food: Cleveland (West Side Market, Little Italy, Sokolowski's, Michael Symon, etc.) Interesting Suburbs: Cleveland (laid out like New England, plus has a unique Amish Country, Atlanta's suburbs struck me as more cookie cutter) Public Transit: Even (Both pretty good, connect to airport, major access points) Healthcare: Cleveland (Clinic) Overall Livability: Cleveland (Lower traffic, more affordable, more space to breathe, daily living amenities, sense of community etc. is likely better, not that ATL is bad, and ATL likely has the advantages of being more flashy, nightlife, access to Smokies, etc.) Shopping: Atlanta (I'm fireballing here though. Beachwood near Cleveland does include Saks Fifth Avenue, Nordstrom, Coach, L'Occitane and a ton of other stores I don't plan on affording ever as well though, LOL.
It's an interesting comparison. Looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts. I took the liberty of attaching pictures of some of the things I think define the City of Cleveland is about though since a picture=1,000 words.
Let's Go Cavs!
Atlanta on everything except museums,Healthcare, and k-12Education
Jobs-Atlanta and it aint even close
History-You gave some compelling reasons for Cleveland but Atlanta has been around since the Civil War and many battles were fouht around here
Gone With the Wind one of the most popular books ever written was about the Battle of Atlanta.
Livability-Atlanta.It may be known for sprawl but you have so much diversity with the metro in choosing what type of area you wish to live in.
Scenery-Cleveland is in a beautiful area too but Atlanta has flowering trees,green everywhere and hills.You walk outside and you smell the honeysuckle and Magnolia trees.
Shopping is Atlanta all the way,There are stores in Atlanta that Cleveland will never have.Atlanta is a market most retailers that are not there are at least planning or contemplating opening in Atlanta.
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