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These are some great projects. I follow Atlanta closely because of how well-done a lot of urban infill is there compared to its peers. I think Atlanta has a LONG way to go but it will start surpassing others soon on the urbanity scale.
My only gripe with these streetviews is - where are the people? Besides the last one, most of these are ghost towns. Hope the new developments improve this.
I think in 15-20 years Atlanta could get to maybe something like Seattle where you have a pretty lively happening core which flows out into basically a streetcar suburb vernacular with mixed use urban village spread through out.
For a variety of reasons Atl is less walkable than many cities, but it has a huge MSA and strong economy which gives it a lot of potential.
One can cover a ton of ground in Baltimore on foot without seeing extensive decay.
No chance you'd walk any of the places you mentioned at night. You can do a tight walk from Federal Hill to Canton and literally not stray a block around the Inner Harbor and you have a short, daytime walk that's not exceptionally interesting. Any other neighborhood you're walking through abandoned buildings or worse. And you're not walking north of Patterson Park even during the day.
I have walked through every decent sized city, and Baltimore is by far one of the worst for it. And don't get me started on taking kids to the B&O Museum. They learn more about urban decline and "scary" neighborhoods than trains.
Yup... I've never hidden my bias. Atlanta isn't the gem people try to make it out to be in my opinion and its forumers are my least favorite as a collective on CD. Just like Atlanta being one of your darling cities, your bias is showing as well by trying to highlight little 4-5 block sections of street retail surrounded by single family homes scattered throughout the city that aren't even connected to each other, and require a car to get to for the most part. This isnt unique or special as basically every other major city has this especially in the older burbs. It's like giving a t-shirt credit for having sleeves...
And Minneapolis/Detroit were brought in by other forumers and not locals from what I can see.... you see the difference?
My "bias"? Just a few posts ago, you showed me where I missed your reference to those same areas (which I did) and said we were "saying the same thing" (which we actually were).
But mentioning those areas wasn't the main point. The reason I initially responded to your post was to highlight West Midtown and the Beltline, both of which are fairly new and ongoing developments that have added to Atlanta's urban fabric in highly visible and impactful ways. They were worth pointing out if your last visit was nearly two years ago IMO. I also thought you would've agreed with demonta4's post where he gave an honest assessment of the city's shortcomings in becoming overall more walkable and why that would exclude it from being a top contender in this thread as opposed to treating what he said as a stark example of boosterism that needed to be checked. It is what it is though.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11
Leading all of these cities in share of buildings that are abandoned, there's nothing to celebrate about Baltimore's "form".
Abandoned buildings doesn't take away from Baltimore's structural urbanity, which is what this thread is about. It's entrenched in the city's bones, the abandoned buildings can replaced by new ones. The street grid and urban bones are already there. What Baltimore needs is expanded transit options.
Now if the thread were about most blighted cities across the board, then I'm totally with you.
Leading all of these cities in share of buildings that are abandoned, there's nothing to celebrate about Baltimore's "form".
No one here celebrates its abandonment.
What me and everyone else points out is that your entire argument purposely skates around the fact from a structural perspective (which what this thread is about) Baltimore is factually the more urban city.
You or mines personal feelings have nothing to do with that. I rest my case.
No chance you'd walk any of the places you mentioned at night. You can do a tight walk from Federal Hill to Canton and literally not stray a block around the Inner Harbor and you have a short, daytime walk that's not exceptionally interesting. Any other neighborhood you're walking through abandoned buildings or worse. And you're not walking north of Patterson Park even during the day.
I have walked through every decent sized city, and Baltimore is by far one of the worst for it. And don't get me started on taking kids to the B&O Museum. They learn more about urban decline and "scary" neighborhoods than trains.
A "tight walk from Federal Hill to Canton"--say, north on Charles to east on Pratt then turn south on President to get to Fleet walking east--only takes you through the Inner Harbor/Harbor East. Walking through the other neighborhoods I mentioned is absolutely not a trek through abandoned 'hoods or worse...that's just patently false. You lack credibility here, big time.
Baltimore is pretty functionally urban just not high end high achieving endless corner stores and quite a few commercial strips with a lot of foot traffic. Abundant working class traditional urban areas along Eastern Ave, York Road, Belair Road, North Avenue, Harford Road, Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington Boulevard, Pimlico Road, Frankford Avenue. Places with boxing gyms, museums, bars, lounges, rec centers, barbershops, family dollars, lawyers, thrift shops, restaurants, mechanics, gad stations, true Italian delis, HVAC repair, local pharmacies, and bodegas galore. Long commercial thoroughfares All heavily frequented on foot. All surrounded by abundant rowhomes. Baltimore is highly functional for the working man. There are even some logistics and manufacturing jobs on the east side is the city. Lots of small shops interspersed amongst the rowhomes on the corners in more stable areas
Baltimore isn’t my favorite city but it’s a respectable, urban place that feel like the routine is a traditional city. Dirty charming and Walkable with the necessary structural density too.
I’d have to say there’s a real lack of credibility in Baltimore’s supposed “lack of urbanity” in relation to Seattle just seems unfounded for anything other than Downtown Seattle v Downtown Baltimore.
I think in 15-20 years Atlanta could get to maybe something like Seattle where you have a pretty lively happening core which flows out into basically a streetcar suburb vernacular with mixed use urban village spread through out.
For a variety of reasons Atl is less walkable than many cities, but it has a huge MSA and strong economy which gives it a lot of potential.
I agree with this take Atlanta should take the DC/Seattle route where we build dense main corridors to supplement our single-family neighborhoods simply because they're already there and we can't exactly demolish them. I see a ton of potential to densify the westside in areas where many homes are empty or destroyed (like Vine City/English Ave). I predict the Westside in general will be where much of our density will be built over the next 30 years. We can totally reimagine neighborhoods and hopefully ensure that we have enough stock to keep housing affordable.
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