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Well, NYC has that scale, not just Manhattan. There are more people living in those types of 5-8 floor midrise neighborhoods outside of Manhattan than within Manhattan. Basically the entire West Bronx has that scale.
And in Europe, that sort of scale is more common in Mediterranean Europe. It's very common in Spain, France and Italy. It basically doesn't exist in the UK, and isn't the norm in Germany/Austria, Benelux and the Scandinavian countries.
Austria has the large, grand urban scale of Paris, just smaller in area. I'd say Berlin does too.
Brooklyn and Queens has a very large rowhouse presence(and even single family homes in some instances) which really doesn't give it that large scale urban vibe to be honest.
Austria has the large, grand urban scale of Paris, just smaller in area. I'd say Berlin does too.
Yeah, I guess Vienna and Berlin do have lots of midrises. Berlin isn't really high density, though, but Vienna certainly is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
Brooklyn and Queens has a very large rowhouse presence(and even single family homes in some instances) which really doesn't give it that large scale urban vibe to be honest.
Brooklyn and Queens have far more midrise apartment building neighborhoods than rowhouse neighborhoods.
You could never get those types of densities from brownstones. Most of Brooklyn and Western Queens have comparable density as some of the densest cities in Europe.
NYC is an anomaly in the U.S. It's the only one that looks like it belongs on a truly global level. Even a city like Madrid, Barcelona, Milan look massive in comparison to U.S. cities by the way they are built. Let's not get to to some of the Asian cities. When 80% of their metros live in the urban part of the cities, the cities just look huge in comparison.
I always wonder why U.S cities didn't build the 6 to 7 story cityscapes like European and some Asian cities did. I mean, D.C. and Seattle are starting to build towards it, but they are still a long way off. Only Manhattan has that scale. Chicago falls off to 3 story buildings once you're outside of downtown. It kind of makes it feel small compared to a city like Paris of the same size.
Yeah, I think the US has missed the boat when it comes to truly urban global cities. SF and Boston probably are the most similar to European cities in build, but they (Boston especially) quickly lose their "European" 5-7 story densities and trail off into 2-3story triple deckers and rowhouses.
DC is sort of moving in that direction, but the city is basically built out in a 2-3-story rowhouse vernacular. Obviously, they aren't going anywhere. So DC will never become a Euro-style city. But, it will get some limited 6-7 story infill on a few key streets (14th, 7th, H Street) and then some 8-10-story apartments in a couple new infill neighborhoods (NoMa, Navy Yard, SW Waterfront, Mt Vernon triangle) and then some smaller TOD at outer neighbrhood metro stops.
I generally like to excuse SF because it's cityscape is very unique and isn't replicated anywhere in the world.
As far as Boston, I agree. It's inner core has that European large urban scale, but it's in a rather small area....Boston would be a really impressive city if it had boomed more during it's time when it was building these types of buildings.
Yeah, I guess Vienna and Berlin do have lots of midrises. Berlin isn't really high density, though, but Vienna certainly is.
Brooklyn and Queens have far more midrise apartment building neighborhoods than rowhouse neighborhoods.
You could never get those types of densities from brownstones. Most of Brooklyn and Western Queens have comparable density as some of the densest cities in Europe.
Berlin doesn't have a very high average density, but that is largely due to the fact that it's city boarders include large suburban regions with lots of parks. The city core is very dense, maybe not as dense as Paris, but it sustains its density (and mid-rise apartment built-environment) in a way that no US city does outside of NYC.
The city core is very dense, maybe not as dense as Paris, but it sustains its density (and mid-rise apartment built-environment) in a way that no US city does outside of NYC.
I would agree that Berlin sustains its density, though I would disagree that it has high density. The core districts don't seem unusually dense to me.
It's more like a sustained medium density over a large area, IMO. Barcelona or Madrid or Paris or Naples would be examples of high density over a large area.
I would agree that Berlin sustains its density, though I would disagree that it has high density. The core districts don't seem unusually dense to me.
It's more like a sustained medium density over a large area, IMO. Barcelona or Madrid or Paris or Naples would be examples of high density over a large area.
Fair enough, Berlin may not be as dense as Paris or Madrid. But, it is "high density" by non-NYC US standards. SF may have a couple little census tracts that have higher peak densities. But, no US city has the density of core density of Berlin. IMO, it tops cities like Chicago, SF and certainty Bos and Philly.
I generally like to excuse SF because it's cityscape is very unique and isn't replicated anywhere in the world.
As far as Boston, I agree. It's inner core has that European large urban scale, but it's in a rather small area....Boston would be a really impressive city if it had boomed more during it's time when it was building these types of buildings.
DC is another city that in theory could look like a European city had it developed in an earlier era. Unfortunately, the MSA didn't really hit it's stride until suburbanism was in full bloom.
Actually, just today the undertook a massive downzoning to specifically preserve the small rowhouses and prevent them from being repurposed into small 3-4 unit condo/apartment buildings.
Strict pop-up, conversion limits now in effect in many D.C. neighborhoods
Washington Business Journal June 29, 2015
Quote:
The D.C. Zoning Commission wasted little time implementing new restrictions
on rowhome pop-ups and multi-unit conversions...
The overall goal of the new regulations, per the D.C. Register rulemaking, is
to conserve D.C.'s rowhouse neighborhoods, discourage increases in residential
density resulting from new floors (aka, the pop-up), and preserve homes for
families with children.
Nothing you wrote was wrong, but it doesn't address anything I wrote.
I wrote that there are millions of people living in high density tracts in NYC, about a hundred thousand in SF, and basically 0 in LA, which is all true, per Census.
Sorry I am not following your logic at all.
If 50k is the cut-off for a high density tract, then Los Angeles has more than San Francisco.
If 100k is the cut-off, then NYC has "millions" (dubious on this one but maybe I don't know NYC well enough), San Francisco has thousands, and you would be correct that Los Angeles has none (90k is the peak).
Quote:
By urbanized area:
20,000ppsm densities
Los Angeles: 1,957,346
SF-Oakland: 746,826
30,000 ppsm or more
Los Angeles: 582,817
SF-Oakland: 328,494
50,000 ppsm or more
Los Angeles: 105,717
SF-Oakland: 93,803
Personally I think anything over around 30-40k ppsm is pretty high density.
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