US city with urban scale most comparable to Montreal's (life, Chicago, difference)
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I've always felt like Montreal was a mashup of Philly, Boston and St. Louis. In fact, if St. Louis hadn't fallen on such hard times it would be the best comparison. People forget how massive a city it used to be.
Montreal's urban core definitely feels bigger and denser than Boston's (peak Boston might beat peak Montreal, but peak Boston is tiny). I agree with the Philly comparison.
Much, much bigger core than Minneapolis. I've never been to Seattle, but I'd imagine it's also bigger than Seattle's.
Yeah, definitely agree with the Philly comparison when it comes to urban scale. Boston is a close 2nd. In some ways, I would say Boston and Montreal are closer in that they both have a vaguely affluent European air about them. But, yeah, the Boston urban core feels a little smaller. Partially, it is psychological. Boston has much smaller municipal boundaries so people overestimate the practical size gap. Part of it is due to built environment. Boston/Cambridge/Somerville's leafy, wooden triple decker neighborhoods feel a little less urban than Montreal and Philly's solid brick rowhouse areas (despite similar densities). And part of it is due to the fact that Boston is indeed a little smaller city than Montreal or Philly. Maybe not 3x smaller as a municipal population comparison would show. But, Philly is probably a good 30% bigger than Boston (even after you adjust for Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline, Chelsea, etc being outside the city).
Montreal's urban core definitely feels bigger and denser than Boston's (peak Boston might beat peak Montreal, but peak Boston is tiny). I agree with the Philly comparison.
Much, much bigger core than Minneapolis. I've never been to Seattle, but I'd imagine it's also bigger than Seattle's.
I'm not sure you can call Boston's peak tiny...the inner 150 square miles still average over 10,000 ppsm. There aren't many cities in this country which do that.
Montreal city proper is 1,649,519 in 141 square miles (11,701ppsm) and Boston's central area has 1,437,982 in 136 sq miles (10,558ppsm). They're pretty comparable.
On top of that, its inner office market is fourth or fifth in the nation (it and SF are about tied, with NYC, DC, Chicago taking the first three spots), and it's a bit larger than that of Montreal.
Ultimately, I think Boston or Philadelphia are probably the most comparable. The city of SF may be similar, but I think the surrounding areas are far larger than that of Montreal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
Yeah, definitely agree with the Philly comparison when it comes to urban scale. Boston is a close 2nd. In some ways, I would say Boston and Montreal are closer in that they both have a vaguely affluent European air about them. But, yeah, the Boston urban core feels a little smaller. Partially, it is psychological. Boston has much smaller municipal boundaries so people overestimate the practical size gap. Part of it is due to built environment. Boston/Cambridge/Somerville's leafy, wooden triple decker neighborhoods feel a little less urban than Montreal and Philly's solid brick rowhouse areas (despite similar densities). And part of it is due to the fact that Boston is indeed a little smaller city than Montreal or Philly. Maybe not 3x smaller as a municipal population comparison would show. But, Philly is probably a good 30% bigger than Boston (even after you adjust for Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline, Chelsea, etc being outside the city).
Actually, the difference between the expanded Boston & Philadelphia is only about 8.5%:
Boston+ is 1,437,982 in 136 sq miles (10,558ppsm)
Philadelphia is 1,560,297 in 134 sq miles (11,635ppsm)
However I definitely agree with you that the greener, leafier triple decker styles in Dorchester, Somerville, etc. make the area feel smaller visually.
On top of that, its inner office market is fourth or fifth in the nation (it and SF are about tied, with NYC, DC, Chicago taking the first three spots), and it's a bit larger than that of Montreal.
SF actually has more like 70-80 million square feet of office space in the CBD, depending on what source you use (cushman wakefield only counts the north/south financial district as the CBD though).
SF actually has more like 70-80 million square feet of office space in the CBD, depending on what source you use (cushman wakefield only counts the north/south financial district as the CBD though).
Yea I was looking at the publications and it appears the proper square footage for SF city is around 75 million, while Boston's central area is more like 65 million. So that'd put SF at 4, Boston at 5.
I never felt unsafe in Montreal, even riding the subway late at night. I've heard French Canadians hate it when you speak English to them but everyone I encountered was happy to help me. In fact, whenever I tried speaking French, they just spoke English back because they knew I wasn't from the area. When I got up to Quebec City, then it became more difficult to get around without knowing a lot of French. But yeah, Montreal was also very clean and it never really struck me as that gritty.
Like I pointed out earlier, Montreal reminded me of DC or at least a few neighborhoods of DC. However, you could also make a strong case that Boston is the American equivalent or possibly Philly. The Quebec countryside certainly reminded me of New England. Quebec City was also like Boston, but also like Charleston or St. Augustine.
I'm not sure you can call Boston's peak tiny...the inner 150 square miles still average over 10,000 ppsm. There aren't many cities in this country which do that.
Montreal city proper is 1,649,519 in 141 square miles (11,701ppsm) and Boston's central area has 1,437,982 in 136 sq miles (10,558ppsm). They're pretty comparable.
On top of that, its inner office market is fourth or fifth in the nation (it and SF are about tied, with NYC, DC, Chicago taking the first three spots), and it's a bit larger than that of Montreal.
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However I definitely agree with you that the greener, leafier triple decker styles in Dorchester, Somerville, etc. make the area feel smaller visually.
You're right, but it's not only about population density for me. Somerville and Cambridge are largely residential, with many disjoint neighborhoods but also several commercial areas scattered around (i.e., the squares). Most areas are themselves very walkable, but I think because of the way the streets are laid out, you don't get that same "continued urban walkable experience) that Montreal provides over a greater area. If that makes sense.
You're right, but it's not only about population density for me. Somerville and Cambridge are largely residential, with many disjoint neighborhoods but also several commercial areas scattered around (i.e., the squares). Most areas are themselves very walkable, but I think because of the way the streets are laid out, you don't get that same "continued urban walkable experience) that Montreal provides over a greater area. If that makes sense.
That makes perfect sense. The main high density cores themselves resemble each other (Montreal and Boston) but once you stretch away from the core the housing and commercial style are very different. As far as walking/public transit culture is concerned they are similar, but as you mentioned the style of housing in Cambridge/Somerville, etc..gives you a much different feeling from Montreal.
For example I live in Inman Square in Cambridge. From my address you get a walk score of 94 and a bike score of 91. Which is comparable to many inner city neighborhoods in Montreal. The aesthetics are different though.
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