Kansas City vs Louisville vs Nashville vs Indianapolis (live, best, state)
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While I'm no expert in jazz culture, I have always thought that KC has lost much of its jazz heritage, much like it has lost its agricultural/cowtown heritage. I know the city still have an above average jazz scene and has many jazz musicians, but jazz in the city seems to be hanging on by a thread compared to what it used to be like. Although I would still think that KC has more going on than the other cities in this thread as far a jazz, but again, I'm no expert in this area. I will say that Nashville probably blows KC away as far as a general music scene (not just country). Other than Tech9, I can't even think of a lot current KC musicians or bands and Tech9 probably never made it big simply because he has staying KC and most of his music represents the city. KC just doesn't seem to be a city full of small concert venues and start up bands.
As far as how the cities compare to each other, I still say that KC is just a little larger and has more going on overall. The metro area has more people and the metro is a super regional destination for entertainment, shopping, sports, amusement parks, arts etc. So KC has always and continues to punch above its weight as far as cultural and big city amenities
Having said that, Louisville, Nashville and Indianapolis are all right on KC's tail today and in many cases are rapidly closing gaps. The downtowns of all four cities are seeing tremendous investment, but Nashville seems to be pulling away. Louisville has awesome urban bones. I don't think it's at KC's level because KC's urban core is larger, but the downtown and surrounding areas are actually more dense than KC's downtown and surrounding areas. With midtown, northeast, plaza etc, KC pulls away though. Nashville is not too far behind as they too have a very dense urban corridor that is building up still. Indy seems to be really lacking in this area, but they have probably the most active CBD of the bunch.
KC seriously lacks urban recreation infrastructure (which is sad considering all the parks and rivers there) while the other three cities have built downtown greenways, riverfront parks, trails etc. All the cities lack mass transit. KC has a short streetcar starter line and Nashville has one commuter rail line and that's about it.
Indy has an amazing airport, host many huge sporting events etc. Nashville has the best national recognition and probably has the best regional topography. Louisville is slightly lower than the others as far as amenities, but still holds its own with the Kentucky Derby, some huge festivals (I still want to see thunder over Louisville).
While I think KC still punches above the others, I think they are generally peers. All four are medium sized metros that offer a great selection of unique attractions, amenities.
Great post, man! One of the fairer assessments I've seen.
Def agree there Shakeesa. Louisville has more of a good balance....for now! Louisville may have more of the "beer drinking" "bearded hipster." Nashville has more yuppies and wanna be hispters, which cannot be confused with Louisville's hipsters, many of whom are an evolution of the hippee. Either way, it is annoying!
I hope you're not confusing all young people with beards as hipsters. I'm 30, have a beard, and love craft beer. However, I am very, very far from being a hipster, as are my friends.
Btw -- Nashville's craft beer scene has exploded in the last decade.
While I'm no expert in jazz culture, I have always thought that KC has lost much of its jazz heritage, much like it has lost its agricultural/cowtown heritage. I know the city still have an above average jazz scene and has many jazz musicians, but jazz in the city seems to be hanging on by a thread compared to what it used to be like. Although I would still think that KC has more going on than the other cities in this thread as far a jazz, but again, I'm no expert in this area. I will say that Nashville probably blows KC away as far as a general music scene (not just country). Other than Tech9, I can't even think of a lot current KC musicians or bands and Tech9 probably never made it big simply because he has staying KC and most of his music represents the city. KC just doesn't seem to be a city full of small concert venues and start up bands.
As far as how the cities compare to each other, I still say that KC is just a little larger and has more going on overall. The metro area has more people and the metro is a super regional destination for entertainment, shopping, sports, amusement parks, arts etc. So KC has always and continues to punch above its weight as far as cultural and big city amenities
Having said that, Louisville, Nashville and Indianapolis are all right on KC's tail today and in many cases are rapidly closing gaps. The downtowns of all four cities are seeing tremendous investment, but Nashville seems to be pulling away. Louisville has awesome urban bones. I don't think it's at KC's level because KC's urban core is larger, but the downtown and surrounding areas are actually more dense than KC's downtown and surrounding areas. With midtown, northeast, plaza etc, KC pulls away though. Nashville is not too far behind as they too have a very dense urban corridor that is building up still. Indy seems to be really lacking in this area, but they have probably the most active CBD of the bunch.
KC seriously lacks urban recreation infrastructure (which is sad considering all the parks and rivers there) while the other three cities have built downtown greenways, riverfront parks, trails etc. All the cities lack mass transit. KC has a short streetcar starter line and Nashville has one commuter rail line and that's about it.
Indy has an amazing airport, host many huge sporting events etc. Nashville has the best national recognition and probably has the best regional topography. Louisville is slightly lower than the others as far as amenities, but still holds its own with the Kentucky Derby, some huge festivals (I still want to see thunder over Louisville).
While I think KC still punches above the others, I think they are generally peers. All four are medium sized metros that offer a great selection of unique attractions, amenities.
Peter you should stick with what you know. Indy has more than just the Chatterbox and Jazz Kitchen, which are considered world class jazz venues. Why do you feel compelled to chime in on every topic that involves Indianapolis? You're from Louisville but you want to come across as an expert on all things that are Indy. It doesn't surprise me that suddenly you're a jazz expert.
I have lived in Indy, work in S. Indiana, and have in laws in Fishers. I know Indy very well. And yes, I do know a lot about Jazz, although no expert. For my job, I travel to Ohio and Indiana with regularity, and sometimes TN, GA, and IL. I know the major cities in those states by heart, not using GPS or anything. I know them better than most locals. So yes, I do know what I am talking about.
Indy is NOT a big jazz scene. That's a fact. Now if you can show me 10 places that are dedicated soley to jazz 5-6 nights a week, I might change my tune. The fact is, Indy has 2 main jazz clubs and a few Jazz nights/acts that rotate through some restaurants. Hardly a Jazz scene in the vein of KC. I am allowed an opinion
I have lived in Indy, work in S. Indiana, and have in laws in Fishers. I know Indy very well. And yes, I do know a lot about Jazz, although no expert. For my job, I travel to Ohio and Indiana with regularity, and sometimes TN, GA, and IL. I know the major cities in those states by heart, not using GPS or anything. I know them better than most locals. So yes, I do know what I am talking about.
Indy is NOT a big jazz scene. That's a fact. Now if you can show me 10 places that are dedicated soley to jazz 5-6 nights a week, I might change my tune. The fact is, Indy has 2 main jazz clubs and a few Jazz nights/acts that rotate through some restaurants. Hardly a Jazz scene in the vein of KC. I am allowed an opinion
I'm not sure you get it, man. A jazz scene isn't about having ten clubs that are solely dedicated to jazz 5 to 6 nights a week. That would be great, but outside of the MAJOR metros, and New Orleans, I'm not sure any city has that today. Jazz just isnt on the mainstream consciousness like it was historically. The demand isnt there for that many jazz clubs in 95% of even large markets. Maybe I view it through a different lens as a player, but my barometer for a jazz scene in a city is simply; can I steadily find work? In Indy, yes you can. My favorite jazz guitar player in town moved here from Seattle to work. The best sax player in town, Rob Dixon who plays with the headhunters (Originally Herbie Hancock's group) moved here from Atlanta to work. Sounds like you can also find work in KC. Definitely can in Chicago, New York, L.A., Boston, Detroit, and a few other very large markets. But most metros in the 1-3 million range don't have a lot of guys working. Indy does. Whether that work is at a "jazz club", or a private dinner party hosted by some corporation for a convention is inconsequential to me as a player - I'll spend the dollar just the same. Indy failed miserably on preserving its jazz legacy by tearing down the clubs on Indiana Avenue, but that spirit and culture is still in the city. But I guess since you have in-laws in Fishers you would know more about it than I would as a jazz musician in the city.
I'm not sure you get it, man. A jazz scene isn't about having ten clubs that are solely dedicated to jazz 5 to 6 nights a week. That would be great, but outside of the MAJOR metros, and New Orleans, I'm not sure any city has that today. Jazz just isnt on the mainstream consciousness like it was historically. The demand isnt there for that many jazz clubs in 95% of even large markets. Maybe I view it through a different lens as a player, but my barometer for a jazz scene in a city is simply; can I steadily find work? In Indy, yes you can. My favorite jazz guitar player in town moved here from Seattle to work. The best sax player in town, Rob Dixon who plays with the headhunters (Originally Herbie Hancock's group) moved here from Atlanta to work. Sounds like you can also find work in KC. Definitely can in Chicago, New York, L.A., Boston, Detroit, and a few other very large markets. But most metros in the 1-3 million range don't have a lot of guys working. Indy does. Whether that work is at a "jazz club", or a private dinner party hosted by some corporation for a convention is inconsequential to me as a player - I'll spend the dollar just the same. Indy failed miserably on preserving its jazz legacy by tearing down the clubs on Indiana Avenue, but that spirit and culture is still in the city. But I guess since you have in-laws in Fishers you would know more about it than I would as a jazz musician in the city.
Louisville, as of today, has just as many places to hear live jazz, and has several restaurants which feature it. Indy is not special in this regard. That is cool you play in the scene though. I would recommend you travel and play more.
Metros I have personally experienced, in the under 3 million metro range, with a robust jazz scene are Portland, Austin, Denver, and especially, New Orleans. KC is up there too. After House and Classic Rock, Jazz is one of my favorite genres. I wish there was something like Chatterbox in Louisville. I have driven up to Indy specifically to go there.
Louisville also had a huge African American entertainment and theatre district, and it ALL got torn down. Every last building, mostly for parking lots and crappy 70s low rises. Muhammad ALi, then known as Walnut street, was a happening area, very similar to Indiana Ave.
10 places have live jazz in Louisville this Friday...there is live jazz pretty much nightly somewhere. Not robust at all, but very similar to the scene in Indy.
Notice the first pic. This was probably the major black entertainment district in the southeast at the time, outside New Orleans. Atlanta, Dallas, they were all just becoming the size of Louisville at the time.
And the University's Jazz program is fairly robust.
So, a GOOD jazz scene IS about having lots of Jazz clubs...like one will find in Chicago, or Detroit, or Boston, SF, DC, New York. Indy is not a top jazz city and is below KC there, and really probably is not a whole lot better than Louisville, with the exception of Chatterbox, and possibly, Jazz Kitchen (only been once, not a fan).
Last edited by Peter1948; 02-21-2016 at 04:59 PM..
I enjoy your posts and insight. I've played New Orleans and know the city well. There's a musical consciousnesses there from the history and it's carried forward. There are fine jazz clubs and restaurants there playing jazz, but much of it is "traditional" or "dixieland" - not my thing. The huge tourism industry in NOLA helps feed that. Let me say this, KC is not quite on the level of NOLA because it doesn't have as many tourists to pay for it, but KC has the same rich jazz history and today the same consciousness and desire to put jazz front and center. Jazz is an industry in KC. The city promotes jazz, we have a "Jazz District." We have the Jazz Ambassadors, a 501c3 that promotes the art form through events and the JAM magazine. We have the American Jazz Museum. We have the Gem Theater, a dedicated concert hall for jazz! We have the Mutual Musicians Foundation (the black musician union prior to desegregation) that stays open all night on Fridays and Saturdays til sun up for the last 80+ years and which held the first "jam session" in 1930. Hundreds of 20 and 30 somethings come every week for the late night booze scene and get their first taste of jazz there. Corporations, city govts, art galleries and most event planners make jazz a priority here and hire "jazz first."
We have a saying, "jazz was born in New Orleans. but it grew up in Kansas City."
You'll have to come to KC and experience it first hand to understand what I and some other are saying.
They have no idea how much bigger Jazz is in KC as compared to Indy. I do bc I have been to both cities (and lived in Indy for a bit)
Louisville, as of today, has just as many places to hear live jazz, and has several restaurants which feature it. Indy is not special in this regard. That is cool you play in the scene though. I would recommend you travel and play more.
Metros I have personally experienced, in the under 3 million metro range, with a robust jazz scene are Portland, Austin, Denver, and especially, New Orleans. KC is up there too. After House and Classic Rock, Jazz is one of my favorite genres. I wish there was something like Chatterbox in Louisville. I have driven up to Indy specifically to go there.
Louisville also had a huge African American entertainment and theatre district, and it ALL got torn down. Every last building, mostly for parking lots and crappy 70s low rises. Muhammad ALi, then known as Walnut street, was a happening area, very similar to Indiana Ave.
10 places have live jazz in Louisville this Friday...there is live jazz pretty much nightly somewhere. Not robust at all, but very similar to the scene in Indy.
Notice the first pic. This was probably the major black entertainment district in the southeast at the time, outside New Orleans. Atlanta, Dallas, they were all just becoming the size of Louisville at the time.
And the University's Jazz program is fairly robust.
So, a GOOD jazz scene IS about having lots of Jazz clubs...like one will find in Chicago, or Detroit, or Boston, SF, DC, New York. Indy is not a top jazz city and is below KC there, and really probably is not a whole lot better than Louisville, with the exception of Chatterbox, and possibly, Jazz Kitchen (only been once, not a fan).
What planet are you from? Jazz isn't a popular art form. It is more of an acquired taste. Outside of New Orleans, New York and Chicago you're not going to find an area with a lot of jazz clubs. Heck there aren't a lot a radio stations that strictly play jazz. You are coming across as a neophyte on this subject. If jazz had a Mount Rushmore, Indy's very own Wes Montgomery would proudly represent. Who would represent Louisville?
I enjoy your posts and insight. I've played New Orleans and know the city well. There's a musical consciousnesses there from the history and it's carried forward. There are fine jazz clubs and restaurants there playing jazz, but much of it is "traditional" or "dixieland" - not my thing. The huge tourism industry in NOLA helps feed that. Let me say this, KC is not quite on the level of NOLA because it doesn't have as many tourists to pay for it, but KC has the same rich jazz history and today the same consciousness and desire to put jazz front and center. Jazz is an industry in KC. The city promotes jazz, we have a "Jazz District." We have the Jazz Ambassadors, a 501c3 that promotes the art form through events and the JAM magazine. We have the American Jazz Museum. We have the Gem Theater, a dedicated concert hall for jazz! We have the Mutual Musicians Foundation (the black musician union prior to desegregation) that stays open all night on Fridays and Saturdays til sun up for the last 80+ years and which held the first "jam session" in 1930. Hundreds of 20 and 30 somethings come every week for the late night booze scene and get their first taste of jazz there. Corporations, city govts, art galleries and most event planners make jazz a priority here and hire "jazz first."
We have a saying, "jazz was born in New Orleans. but it grew up in Kansas City."
You'll have to come to KC and experience it first hand to understand what I and some other are saying.
Yeah man. New Orleans is my favorite city. The tradition is strong there, and I actually rather enjoy trad, so that's never been a problem for me. The first time I visited Congo Square was truly a spiritual thing. And I would LOVE to check out Kansas City, for its jazz scene and otherwise. Sounds like an amazing city. You brought up Metheny earlier....played a big band arrangement of First Circle in college. I don't think anyone in the band ever had difficulty counting anything again after tht tune haha. Appreciate your insights, and positive contributions to the thread as well. Keep it swinging and inside, man.
Louisville, as of today, has just as many places to hear live jazz, and has several restaurants which feature it. Indy is not special in this regard. That is cool you play in the scene though. I would recommend you travel and play more.
Metros I have personally experienced, in the under 3 million metro range, with a robust jazz scene are Portland, Austin, Denver, and especially, New Orleans. KC is up there too. After House and Classic Rock, Jazz is one of my favorite genres. I wish there was something like Chatterbox in Louisville. I have driven up to Indy specifically to go there.
Louisville also had a huge African American entertainment and theatre district, and it ALL got torn down. Every last building, mostly for parking lots and crappy 70s low rises. Muhammad ALi, then known as Walnut street, was a happening area, very similar to Indiana Ave.
10 places have live jazz in Louisville this Friday...there is live jazz pretty much nightly somewhere. Not robust at all, but very similar to the scene in Indy.
Notice the first pic. This was probably the major black entertainment district in the southeast at the time, outside New Orleans. Atlanta, Dallas, they were all just becoming the size of Louisville at the time.
And the University's Jazz program is fairly robust.
So, a GOOD jazz scene IS about having lots of Jazz clubs...like one will find in Chicago, or Detroit, or Boston, SF, DC, New York. Indy is not a top jazz city and is below KC there, and really probably is not a whole lot better than Louisville, with the exception of Chatterbox, and possibly, Jazz Kitchen (only been once, not a fan).
Respectfully kid, I don't believe it falls within your purview to recommend I do anything with regard to my playing, especially as you know nothing of my background other than what I have disclosed on this forum. Yeah, great, people play jazz in Louisville too. I'm amazed. That doesn't change the fact that historically, Louisville has never been in the jazz conversation, and Indy has. Did you even read the NPR article you linked about Indy's jazz? Finally, I've never once claimed that Indy had a superior scene to KC. In fact, I believe I've been rather open to admitting that I don't know anything about their scene today, but I have tried to express my reverence for their historical contributions to the art form. I'm certainly open to the idea that the scene there is a step up. That may very well be the case, but that in no way diminishes the contributions Indy musicians have made. But, again, thanks for explaining to me, as a non musician who claims jazz as his third or so favorite genre, what constitutes a good jazz scene, and where you feel Indy falls in that hierarchy. I'll take that into consideration as I analyze the craft I've spent the better part of two decades working to perfect, and all the other musicians who have done the same in this subpar jazz town. On this topic, if none other on these boards, i would respectfully suggest that youre batting out of your league. FWIW, I do like Louisville a lot.
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