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I've never been to either, but from what I see and know, I'd most likely prefer Richmond. I like old cities with old architecture and it seems like Richmond has way more.
All you have to do is drive down the road a bit from Norfolk to the Historic Triangle region and see some of the oldest architecture in the US!
Just pointing out that there is TONS of interesting history and very old architecture in the Hampton Roads/Chesapeake Bay/James River area of Virginia.
Of course, the problem here is the inconsistency with which we define "large" and "small". Richmond is the 98th largest city, and 45th largest metro in the nation. More people in the country live in smaller cities and metros than either Norfolk or Richmond. More people can come to Richmond and Norfolk and feel like they are in a big city than the reverse, because Richmond and Norfolk are bigger than most cities....
It was just weird seeing someone from NOVA saying that Norfolk gives off an "overwhelming city vibe."
Atlanta has the energy of a large city. But I'll never forget the first time I went to the famed Little Five Points or Atlantic Station. Those are two of the premier neighborhoods in Atlanta and neither were impressive in their urbanity (I enjoyed both, however)...
For what it's worth I love Atlanta. But I could never live in the metro. I would have to live in the city proper, or I couldn't live there at all. Too much of a commute. Far worse than Hampton Roads. I'm used to that Ohio commute; no more than 45 minutes, no matter where you're going. I hated going from Greenbrier to Thalia here.
If Atlanta could get at least a million of those people to live in the city it would be an entirely different place. People love to move to the suburbs there. And people complain about the NIMBY around here, Atlanta is on an entirely different level. That train should have covered the entire metro decades ago.
It was just weird seeing someone from NOVA saying that Norfolk gives off an "overwhelming city vibe."
Yeah, I didn't get that either. I agree with you on your point about Atlanta--it does have interesting in-city neighborhoods, they're just not urban in the sense of Richmond's. Edgewood and Little Five Points are nice, though...
It was just weird seeing someone from NOVA saying that Norfolk gives off an "overwhelming city vibe."
Uh yeah, I was kind of including Hampton and Newport News. Although all small cities, when you're in the area they inadvertently tend to combine together since they all feel the same - that I also think makes Norfolk feel larger.
Like I said, Richmond is definitely urban, there's no denying that but the whole everybody knows everybody feel killed the city vibe for me.
Yeah, I didn't get that either. I agree with you on your point about Atlanta--it does have interesting in-city neighborhoods, they're just not urban in the sense of Richmond's. Edgewood and Little Five Points are nice, though...
Yeah Richmond's happening 'hoods don't appear to be historic streetcar suburbs like Atlanta's; many, if not most, seem to be directly adjacent to the CBD, similar to Sweet Auburn and Castleberry Hill in Atlanta.
Yeah Richmond's happening 'hoods don't appear to be historic streetcar suburbs like Atlanta's; many, if not most, seem to be directly adjacent to the CBD, similar to Sweet Auburn and Castleberry Hill in Atlanta.
That's about right; most of Rich's best neighborhoods are surrounding Downtown. Fun fact, though--I know you know that Rich had the first trolley/streetcar system in the nation. Pretty much the entire Northside is comprised of former streetcar suburbs, very similar to Atlanta. I still posit that areas like Barton Heights and Ginter Park are urban and can be included in the core...
Uh yeah, I was kind of including Hampton and Newport News. Although all small cities, when you're in the area they inadvertently tend to combine together since they all feel the same - that I also think makes Norfolk feel larger.
Like I said, Richmond is definitely urban, there's no denying that but the whole everybody knows everybody feel killed the city vibe for me.
We assume that you are. The irony of it is that it comes across like you're impressed by suburban sprawl. Depending on how you look at, the majority of Hampton Roads is like a big suburb. The actual urban cities around here are small by comparison. Especially on the Peninsula.
As far as everyone knowing everyone, all that means is that people actually stay where they've grown up, or where they went to college, etc. When I left school and I lived in Dayton, I knew a lot of people from where I went to school at, which was less than an hour away, few of those people were actually from Dayton, but they stayed anyway, particularly if they were from Ohio. But the average person in that city, I did not know at all. It could be that Richmond does not have a lot of transients, which would be unique, because everywhere I've lived does. But to me it is admirable because everywhere I've lived, people are packing up and leaving the first chance that they get.
After having lived (in Dayton) for several years I knew a lot of people. Some of them might still live there, some of them may not. I mean, if people in Richmond know other people, from way back, that is actually a good thing. The city I grew up in is of a similar size, and a lot of people know each other because they can't afford to leave. You could go to Detroit and people know each other that really doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. On the other hand a small town like Harrisonburg, that has as many college students as they have residents, people knowing each other could mean something entirely different, depending on who you're talking about.
Rich is like any other city of size--we have plenty of transients. The large corporate and university presence assure that. Aside from that, you've got people like me. I was raised between Woodbridge and Prince George. Comparably, I know/know of many current Richmonders who are from Nova or the Tri-Cities. My circle of friends includes four from Va Beach/Norfolk who live together in Jackson Ward, so there's a Tidewater presence here too. I know Richmonders from Southside VA, North Carolina, Georgia, Philly, New York, etc. The Hispanic population is growing rapidly on the Southside. Honestly, most of one's friends in Rich will not be from Rich proper if you're not limiting yourself to specific areas...
But I'm a Richmonder lol. The city was never foreign to me. My mother's Mary Kay team was based in Rich. Her best friend was a jazz guy who lived in Jackson Ward when Jackson Ward was a kill zone, when Richmond's local music scene was much thinner. She worked for a time on the Southside. We went to church in Rich, frequented Cloverleaf Mall, went to Braves games, went to WWF events, and I had a handful of friends from Richmond proper. So, for me, in many ways I feel like a native...I love this city!
Rich is like any other city of size--we have plenty of transients. The large corporate and university presence assure that. Aside from that, you've got people like me. I was raised between Woodbridge and Prince George. Comparably, I know/know of many current Richmonders who are from Nova or the Tri-Cities. My circle of friends includes four from Va Beach/Norfolk who live together in Jackson Ward, so there's a Tidewater presence here too. I know Richmonders from Southside VA, North Carolina, Georgia, Philly, New York, etc. The Hispanic population is growing rapidly on the Southside. Honestly, most of one's friends in Rich will not be from Rich proper if you're not limiting yourself to specific areas...
But I'm a Richmonder lol. The city was never foreign to me. My mother's Mary Kay team was based in Rich. Her best friend was a jazz guy who lived in Jackson Ward when Jackson Ward was a kill zone, when Richmond's local music scene was much thinner. She worked for a time on the Southside. We went to church in Rich, frequented Cloverleaf Mall, went to Braves games, went to WWF events, and I had a handful of friends from Richmond proper. So, for me, in many ways I feel like a native...I love this city!
That's cool. It just should not matter at the end of the day, for what we're talking about. Nova has some strange qualifiers. I think he is working with monolithic ideas of what an urban environment is, or is not, supposed to be. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of people are. From my experience this seems to be the case most often with Northerners.
People knowing each other can mean so many different things; it wasn't really clear what that meant when there are small towns with a lot of transients where people do not know each other. I guess it really depends on where you live.
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