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My point was that there are DC influences due to proximity, not that DC reigns supreme .
That also holds true in the DC area as well. I've been in the Dulles area and have seen Baltimore magazines in the grocery strores in Herndon or Chantilly (can't remember which town). I'm certain they aren't flying off the shelves because of DC's undying love for Baltimore, or our huge influence over the DC area.
St. Louis would follow after Cincinnati at a reasonably distanced third. It's still a fairly major corporate hub, but is really struggling with stagnation, both in economics and population. Not that the other metros aren't doing the same, but StL doesn't have as important of a region to anchor.
whoa man, totally disagree. St. Louis exceeds Cincinnati in regional and economic importance. Dayton is not part of the Cincy MSA or CSA, therefore St. Louis is a significantly bigger market, and a visit to both cities kind of puts that debate to rest. St. Louis is bigger, period.
That also holds true in the DC area as well. I've been in the Dulles area and have seen Baltimore magazines in the grocery strores in Herndon or Chantilly (can't remember which town). I'm certain they aren't flying off the shelves because of DC's undying love for Baltimore, or our huge influence over the DC area.
It's seems like you read my post, and then pretended that I said the opposite of what I actually said.
Preface by saying Baltimore is the only one of these cities I've visited, but my list would be as follows:
1-2 (interchangeable): Baltimore, Pittsburgh
(Small gap)
3. Cleveland
4. St. Louis
(Considerable, but not huge, gap)
5. Cincinnati
I'll stary by saying Cincinnati is the clearest outlier, its not really in the same tier, though if it is, its comfortably in the rear. Cincinnati appears to lack the dynamism of any city in this list. All of the other cities have larger economies, have a higher level of ethnic and economic diversity, mostly have higher educational attainment, and all are "big cities". To clarify, Cincinnati has the weakest punch of the group. While it may have the largest metro in Ohio currently, Cleveland certainly has the bones of a large city because it was once in fact a much larger city, and is far more prestigious and renown...
I think St. Louis is a step behind Cleveland, but the two are probably interchangeable. Cleveland appears to have more of a resounding local culture, is historically a bigger immigrant draw, and the vestiges of that are still visible. For those reasons alone do I give Cleveland the slight edge, as I consider the two virtually even elsewhere. Also, St. Louis "seems" somewhat underwhelming for such a large city. Cleveland offers the amenities, generally speaking of a city that's 50-60% larger than it actually is...again, though, I think they're interchangeable. I'd give Cleveland the slight edge...
Historically, Baltimore was far more important than Pittsburgh and every other city on this list. How important is it today? Pittsburgh has narrowed the margin significantly to me because of the way it has diversified its economy. Pittsburgh is a bastion of higher learning and essentially is the anchor city of an entire region--its sphere of influence exceeds Baltimore's. I'd say Baltimore is still more important, but not because of the strength of its economy (Pittsburgh's is stronger). This is the slimmest of margins, but I think Pittsburgh and Baltimore are clearly the top two cities in this mini-tier...
smack:
13 months after writing this I was fortunate enough to spend four days in Pittsburgh, three days in Cleveland, and while my perception on ranking these cities isn't much changed, I have a little clarity on them in relation to each other that I didn't previously have...
Also looking forward to seeing Cincinnati in the near future and eventually making my way to St. Louis...
If I'm ranking them today, on paper, I'd go:
1. Baltimore
2. St. Louis
3. Pittsburgh
4. Cincinnati
5. Cleveland
I think we all recognize why Baltimore is ahead of all these cities, and I'll also add that Cleveland is not really sniffing whatever tier you'd put Baltimore on. I like Cleveland more, if choose to live in Cleveland over Baltimore, but Baltimore crushes Cleveland in any metric of importance, and certainly feels like a more esteemed and more important city, too. It looks the part of a grander city...
Now Pittsburgh, I don't believe the gap between Pittsburgh and Baltimore is all that large. Pittsburgh compares very well in education, educational attainment, and strength of economy. I give Baltimore the lead for its substantial head in all things size and growth, but Pittsburgh is very comparable...
Cleveland lags all of these cities in economic growth and development right now, and because it's also the smallest of the group, I have a hard time finding a reason they aren't last in the hierarchy. Cincinnati appears to have the most momentum of any of these cities right now (most vibrant economy heading into 2018, 2nd largest population growth, the only city proper not losing people, 2nd largest economic growth, etc), and would seem to be a city on the rise...
There is a very big chance that Cincinnati and Dayton will be officially merged in the next years, the area between the two is about the most vibrant area in the Midwest. And Cincy itself is regenerating it's core at an impressive rate. I'm honestly surprised it's trailing in this poll the way it is. It's without a doubt a city on the rise
I'm having a hard time seeing how Baltimore is the most important, and I'm a homer.
Baltimore historically has been more prominent than any of these cities, and there's a variety of factors that support that. To me, one of the largest considerations goes to the fact that Baltimore was in the Top 10 largest cities in the US Census from the very first Census (1790) until 1980, damn near 200 years. The case to make for Baltimore being less important than any of these cities is a flimsy one, but would have to hinge on the fact that Baltimore's reputation has swooned within the last 25-40 years, and is, to most people, still in decline, whereas at least two of these other cities (Cincinnati and Pittsburgh) have generated turnarounds within the new millenium...
St. Louis was the third city to make the Top 10 (after Baltimore and Cincinnati), but stayed in the Top 10 from 1850-1960. That 110-year span smokes everyone else and is second only to Baltimore...
Cincinnati appeared in the Top 10 from 1830-1900. It was the original alpha city in Ohio until Cleveland overtook it right before the 20th century; Cleveland was in the Top 10 for a decade longer, 1890-1970. There will always be debate as to which city is more historically important, but neither of them were on Baltimore's level...
Pittsburgh was only in the Top 10 from 1910-1940, and from a historical perspective can be argued as the least important of the entire group....
Even taking that bit of history aside, as well as the fact that Baltimore has the oldest and arguably most notable and important history of all these cities, today Baltimore is still larger than all of these cities within the city proper; Baltimore is second-largest in MSA (less than 10,000 behind St. Louis); and has arguably the most esteemed med center/university of these cities, one of the most esteemed on the planet, to some. Baltimore has the most sophisticated city layout and public transportation if the group, the largest economy, too...
Baltimore isn't my favorite city, but there's no question it's the leader of the pack, by a fairly considerable margin, if this is the group of cities it is compared to...
Today, I think it's fair to say St. Louis is the second city and has been historically, but particularly Pittsburgh (And maybe Cincy, which I know less about) is nearly in lockstep, and the space between Pittsburgh and Baltimore is currently probably smaller than its ever been. Baltimore's fall from grace is real and notable but the city that is really seemingly in free-fall is Cleveland...
Pittsburgh was only in the Top 10 from 1910-1940, and from a historical perspective can be argued as the least important of the entire group....
In population, yes.
Pittsburgh was #3 behind only New York and Chicago in corporate HQ's up until 1983.
Today, when would someone outside of the region hear about Baltimore unless they are watching a sporting event? Ask the same question for St. Louis.
Cincinnati may be the most classically American city, but how has it really been important since 1920? Look at some of the previous posts....hey if maybe someday it gets merged with Dayton, then this happens...come on.
Pittsburgh-G20, world epicenter for driverless car tech. Steelers, Pens, serious contender for Amazon HQ2. There are probably more films and television shows shot/set in Pittsburgh than in Chicago at this point. Cleveland is also very important historically and has made pretty big moves lately.
Pittsburgh was #3 behind only New York and Chicago in corporate HQ's up until 1983.
Today, when would someone outside of the region hear about Baltimore unless they are watching a sporting event? Ask the same question for St. Louis.
Cincinnati may be the most classically American city, but how has it really been important since 1920? Look at some of the previous posts....hey if maybe someday it gets merged with Dayton, then this happens...come on.
Pittsburgh-G20, world epicenter for driverless car tech. Steelers, Pens, serious contender for Amazon HQ2. There are probably more films and television shows shot/set in Pittsburgh than in Chicago at this point. Cleveland is also very important historically and has made pretty big moves lately.
Pittsburgh easily.
The Steelers, really?
I will say that EVERY time I go out of town, I hear something or another about Baltimore, either on TV, somebody from here, the Ravens, crime..... something.
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Confusing tone
