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I wasn't responding to the original question. I'm wondering if you're embarrassed that you didn't know of Berkshire Hathaway...and it's higher ranking than Procter and God.
Yes, I know about Berkshire Hathaway and I complete all the obligatory genuflections whenever the Oracle of Omaha's holy name is ever said aloud. Now, it's your turn to bat.
So far, I've read nothing new nor been shown that Cincinnati hasn't scored a business home run. Even if we limit the OP's question to that of business only, you've got to do more than merely tell everyone that BH's F100 standing is higher than that of P&G. Your real homework lies entirely ahead of you.
Yes, I know about Berkshire Hathaway and I complete all the obligatory genuflections whenever the Oracle of Omaha's holy name is ever said aloud. Now, it's your turn to bat.
So far, I've read nothing new nor been shown that Cincinnati hasn't scored a business home run. Even if we limit the OP's question to that of business only, you've got to do more than merely tell everyone that BH's F100 standing is higher than that of P&G. Your real homework lies entirely ahead of you.
Oh, I'm done...don't really care that much. Just wanted to make sure you knew that P&G wasn't the be-all, end-all.
Oh, I'm done...don't really care that much. Just wanted to make sure you knew that P&G wasn't the be-all, end-all.
Good to see you stand down on this one. And, as for myself, I do realize that P&G isn't the "be-all, end-all" of everything. Although the company's global footprint is huge, it plays ball against some very powerful adversaries besides only Amazon. And, sadly to say, P&G's recent stock holder driven, 100-company fire sale diminished both its revenue and world presence considerably.
I wasn't responding to the original question. I'm wondering if you're embarrassed that you didn't know of Berkshire Hathaway...and it's higher ranking than Procter and God.
Both P&G and Berkshire are Behemoths. The difference is not as much as you make it seen.
And what happens to Berkshire and Omaha when old man Buffet is gone
As this thread meanders along into obsolescence, it's an opportune time for me to just sit back and enjoy the show - mainly because nothing I say hence will make an iota of difference. Nevertheless, your conclusion (emboldened above) cannot stand. I haven't agreed to anything, other than to acknowledge that Cleveland's won the poll. Lest it be overlooked, in Post #211 I've already expressed my own rejection to such a hollow win as this: And, as to my analogy concerning midgets? It was employed (thinking trulyglobally) only to describe how most people, worldwide, undoubtedly view our Midwestern cities. This new analogy will help...
This time let's use a yardstick to measure the world's truly global cities...
Needless to say, up at the top of the yardstick and only inches down are cities of monumental global importance - say NYC, London, and Tokyo, for example. However, as we work our way downward, exactly just how far down do we have to go to locate the poll cities? A scant few forum members will suggest a foot-long ruler will be needed, but most forum members will say that just a 6-inch short rule will suffice. (You guys know what I mean, right?)
So, confined together way down here on the yardstick in six-inch Midget Land, are all the poll cities, with their devotees all clamoring to tell everyone just why their particular city stands highest atop the six-inch rule. And, to win it, no longer on short rules, they're aligning their assets on what they're proudly displaying as bona-fide yardsticks. For example, if Cleveland claims its symphony belongs at the 30-inch mark of their "Global Cultural Yardstick", that's just as globally significant as Cincinnati claiming that Procter & Gamble belongs at the 30-inch mark of its "Global Business Yardstick." Identifying the problem of this kind of grandiose thinking is so easy - ie, while, the measurements, themselves, may be accurate and justifiable, the two yardsticks simply cannot be thought of as equal. Numerous Cleveland devotees keep insisting that two or three of Cleveland's yardsticks all added up trump Cincinnati's lone yardstick where much has been marked. I say bunk! Cincinnati has simply knocked one clean outta the ballpark. What that means for Cleveland (down in Midget Land) is that it's not even the tallest midget.
Good, so in essence, you and I are on the same page. None of the major cities listed are heads and shoulders above any other and we've established that agreement earlier. This is also why I think your idea of a trump card for Cincinnati is suspect. Where Cleveland does well can be wiped away by where Cincinnati excels once you wipe away the rest of the criteria listed and deem them insignificant seems to be a matter of a very specific, but plausible, interpretation of the criteria. You can certainly put the weighting in a different sense where I can see a plausible scenario where Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Omaha, or Louisville can reasonably come ahead without it disintegrating into a criteria where it's so specific that it's tailored for any one specific city--in that respect, I think it's a bit difficult to make the argument, when one is weighting heavily on almost singular factors, that Cincinnati comes ahead as you really have to tailor things for it. It's a matter of what you weight in this comparison and I agree it's imperfect. Cincinnati doesn't do as well as Cleveland in all other categories, and doesn't do so well against several of the other cities in contention, on any other points except for international business so that's my take on it and my take on this was that since those criteria were listed, Cincinnati doing well on one of them much more so than almost any other city listed save for Omaha, was enough to put it behind Cleveland. I understand this is imperfect because there was no criteria set for weighing the different points, so we can certainly disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman
Yes, I know about Berkshire Hathaway and I complete all the obligatory genuflections whenever the Oracle of Omaha's holy name is ever said aloud. Now, it's your turn to bat.
So far, I've read nothing new nor been shown that Cincinnati hasn't scored a business home run. Even if we limit the OP's question to that of business only, you've got to do more than merely tell everyone that BH's F100 standing is higher than that of P&G. Your real homework lies entirely ahead of you.
I'm not sure what you mean here. I think you're misunderstanding the scale difference between Berkshire Hathaway and other companies mentioned. We're not talking about a small difference here and we aren't even mentioning any of the other major corporations of Omaha (though ConAgra is moving to Chicago soon). Even outside of the massive scale difference in revenue, assets, etc., there's also the issue of influence in the global economy. Berkshire buys into a company or sector and it suddenly signals a massive move of investment on a national and global scale. Buffet and his being so closely identified with Omaha is another difference here where Buffet is closely identified with Omaha but it's an oddity for people to closely identify any Cincinnati company, or almost any company save for the aforementioned KFC, with a specific area. You must be completely misunderstanding this in order to suggest that the mention of Omaha was a red herring when you're moving to say global business is the primary or largest criteria around that must necessarily inundate any other criteria mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948
Both P&G and Berkshire are Behemoths. The difference is not as much as you make it seen.
And what happens to Berkshire and Omaha when old man Buffet is gone
The difference is massive. This is not up for any real debate. In any metric, by any measure, the difference is massive. If you went by hard numbers of just revenue and assets, the difference is massive. If you really wanted to try to measure the difference, you'd also have to consider the influence of what it means when Berkshire invests or disinvests in any company or sector or when there are pronouncements of any kind in the annual shareholder meeting or anything else they put out.
The question of how sustainable things are in that company, whether it can weather the passing or retirement of Warren Buffet is interesting. One would assume that a company as productive and massive as that would have a good contingency plan, but there's also the issue of factoring in the cult of personality Buffet has among the wealthiest of the world. It's an interesting prediction to be made, but predictions like that are hard to account for when you're talking about the present, so I don't even attempt an explanation or projection for this. My somewhat informed guess is that there are various platforms that are automated to buy in large numbers shares of Berkshire upon Buffet's retirement or passing because they will be banking on the idea that market sentiment will have people divesting immediately because of those same fears, but that the funds pouring into it will be banking on this drop knowing full well that the investment will pay off because Buffet will have placed people within the company that are incredibly capable and know that this will happen. I'd be surprised if there isn't a massive buyback within Berkshire itself upon Buffet's retirement/passing.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-09-2016 at 09:13 PM..
Good, so in essence, you and I are on the same page. None of the major cities listed are heads and shoulders above any other and we've established that agreement earlier. This is also why I think your idea of a trump card for Cincinnati is suspect. Where Cleveland does well can be wiped away by where Cincinnati excels once you wipe away the rest of the criteria listed and deem them insignificant seems to be a matter of a very specific, but plausible, interpretation of the criteria. You can certainly put the weighting in a different sense where I can see a plausible scenario where Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Omaha, or Louisville can reasonably come ahead without it disintegrating into a criteria where it's so specific that it's tailored for any one specific city--in that respect, I think it's a bit difficult to make the argument, when one is weighting heavily on almost singular factors, that Cincinnati comes ahead as you really have to tailor things for it. It's a matter of what you weight in this comparison and I agree it's imperfect. Cincinnati doesn't do as well as Cleveland in all other categories, and doesn't do so well against several of the other cities in contention, on any other points except for international business so that's my take on it and my take on this was that since those criteria were listed, Cincinnati doing well on one of them much more so than almost any other city listed save for Omaha, was enough to put it behind Cleveland. I understand this is imperfect because there was no criteria set for weighing the different points, so we can certainly disagree...
I see we're at it again. Before being dragged into this gentlemanly grudge match any further, a few things need to be said, some of which I've voiced before:
(a) I agree that we're on the same page, at least concerning the global importance of our two cities. On the global yardstick analogy I used earlier, Cincinnati and Cleveland are jockeying for international status down in the bottom 6-inch range of the yardstick - but, then, so are all the other Midwestern poll cities not named Chicago, Detroit, or Minneapolis. And, whatever term is flippantly employed to describe this allegedly invisible region (whether it be called Midget Land, Middle Earth, The Dead Zone, or Flyover Country, etc.) only on a truly global scale may any of our cities be considered insignificant.
(b) Even though I've acknowledged the Cleveland win, I've also labeled it a hollow victory, but then, who cares? What I say matters not, I don't wish to be labeled a sore loser, and I probably need to just reenter my life away from my computer screen. And, as for yourself, do you realize that our prolific pollster-happy OP has already initiated another poll with Cleveland's name on it? Ah, just the mere mention of Cleveland atop a new poll has already activated the Cleveland homers, sending them all into a renewed feeding frenzy. Same as it ever was. As for myself, not only have I grown tired of repeating things here, but I also realize in doing this, that I'm becoming a real bore myself. At this late stage of the game, many forum members are just firing off anything they feel like saying, whether relevant or not. Where the thread will now lead, nobody knows. An analogy: take the letter Y, top it with two more Y's, then repeat until exhaustion occurs. So many threads end up this way.
(c) No matter what I say here, it won't change poll results. The "poll part" of this thread was clinched within the first two or three days in the usual way C-D polls are all decided. Homers and advocates, thinkers and idiots - all quickly and automatically vote for the city of their choice, and any following activity is nothing more than a meaningless mop up operation. (And, wherever has there ever been a poll, except on C-D, where a voter's choice is made public?!)
(d) Your insistence that I rely too heavily on Cincinnati's strong business suit to wing it and make it appear more important than it really kinda implies this: the name "Cincinnati" may be mentioned, but only as a backdrop for any city but it. In a nutshell, isn't that the case here, where several forum members have strongly insisted that I start a separate thread concerning business alone, and maybe then, not even that of global business? Hamstring Cincinnati by minimizing its strong suit; involve it in a thread especially tailored to cut it down to size, while also clearing off all the damage it caused on the community playing field you're all on right now - the focus on Berkshire Hathaway does that oh so beautifully! Why doesn't someone (oh please, someone!) seriously consider starting another thread entirely? How about you?
Last edited by motorman; 06-10-2016 at 10:41 AM..
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