Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Realistically, while Minneapolis does have a bigger GDP, more companies, and several of the other things you mentioned, it is still a mid sized city. Detroit perhaps you could argue is above the mid sized tier, but even then, that may be a reach. If I had to evaluate things, NYC alone is in one league. Should we call that tier A? Or just New York? Then, tier 2 would be LA, Boston, DC, SF, Chicago, Philly, and maybe ATL, Dallas and Houston in some ways. I could see MAYBE having like a middling (but sorta small, really) Tier 3 would include (IMO), Seattle, Detroit (autos), Miami, and actually I'd put ATL, Dallas and Houston in this bin (yes, historical reputation DOES matter, for multiple reasons. Anything below that from about Minneapolis (which is closer to Cleveland/St. Louis/Pittsburgh than it is to that next tier up, IMO), all the way down to about, Indianapolis, would be tier 4. Then you have tier 5 which is basically any metro from about 500K->2M (and sorry, but Louisville, along with Vegas and Austin would be in this group) would be tier 5, and then if you want to care at that point and do another group of 100-500, like Tallahassee, Asheville, Eugene, etc., it'd be tier 6. But, in the interest of having a nice number group which sounds better, I'll merge the cities in my mid group with the larger tier 2, and there ya have it. So under that you'd have:
Chicago: Tier 2 (or tier 1 if NYC excluded)
Detroit: Tier 2/2B (middling group I described)
Minneapolis, Cleveland, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Columbus: Tier 3 (if y'all are mad about it, I don't care lol)
Louisville, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, Omaha, Rochester, Buffalo: Tier 4
Madison, Wichita, Lansing, etc.: Tier 5
Also, even with that said, I prefer Cleveland's amenities/COL ratio of any city in the group, with the closest competition genuinely being Pittsburgh/STL (and possibly Buffalo). GDP's/Population Sizes don't make people happier, or necessarily make those cities better (even if they are in certain terms). Saying otherwise would just be close minded and also incorrect, IMO. Just because a city is in a lower tier in economic standing doesn't mean that they can't punch above their weight (or be as good/better than other larger cities culturally, recreationally, or otherwise). Take a look at the global cities livability index. Tokyo is generally up there, so that's a bad example, but so too are Scandinavian/Canadian/Kiwi cities that rank below many places in population size, economic output, skyline, whatever else you want to throw out.
No every city on this list has a better economy than detroit.
My point is due to size, Chicago, Detroit, and mpls are leagues more international than any city on this list.
And despite all the voting for CLE and STL the reality is Columbus has more international population, and no one can touch Louisville's growth in international population....and this means dozens more international stores and restaurants than one could ever imagine in these cities.
I mean none of these cities really has many international flights anymore. Maybe CLE has 3 or something and usually seasonal. Toronto barely counts since it is less than 2 hours away.
In fact Louisville has more direct international flights than every city in this poll combined...but almost none are for people (maybe a couple seasonal to Caribbean), only UPS cargo So that alone is more international than any other airport listed.....
I could give you a tour of Columbus or Louisville that would really surprise the heck out of you with regards to the new immigration of the last 20 years....
Really Indy and KC too. The square that runs from Indianapolis, to Columbus, south to Louisville and up to Cincinnati is the most successful economic region in the Midwest right now. Even taking Louisville out for the Midwest purest who believe a mile of water creates a different area, then certainly Columbus, Indianapolis, and now even Cincinnati, are doing a lot right. And immigrants are coming because of it.
I know this as I do a lot of business in this area. So...I think STL is BARELY the most international metro here, with CLE and PITT not far behind, but one has to wonder if Columbus, Louisville, Cincy, Indy, even KC are all really right there, neck and neck. At the end of the day, none are international cities and all are mid sized!
Well I lived in Columbus as recently as 4 years ago. I don't think I'd be at all surprised. But yeah, none are all that international outside of maybe a couple areas, that's true. And not necessarily a bad thing. Though I would not have a job without a strong international bend to a city, personally.
Well I lived in Columbus as recently as 4 years ago. I don't think I'd be at all surprised. But yeah, none are all that international outside of maybe a couple areas, that's true. And not necessarily a bad thing. Though I would not have a job without a strong international bend to a city, personally.
Perhaps that's why you don't live in Ohio anymore. Nice state, but none of their cities are international at all. Columbus seems to be pulling in a good number of Africans, but outside that there is no international flavor to any of the cities in the state.
I'm not arguing for any city, but I think it's unfair to say that Minneapolis is an international because it houses two large refugee groups. It's not an immigration destination. It also has below-average Latino and US-born black populations.
RedJohn....you will never get the homer boosters to admit this.
Chicago is in a whole other stratosphere than any other Midwest city. MLPS and Detroit are in a whole other league.
Everyone else is a mid sized city, just different shades of it. That includes as small as Des Moines, as truly midsized as Louisville, or as "large" as St Louis in MSA.
Agreed. Chicago is a beast. If the Midwest were a country of its own, Chicago most definitely could qualify as its primate city, in addition to also being its premier city. It would be both.
There are only two cities in the Midwest that can give Chicago "some" hiccups in limited capacity, even if they cannot overall compete with Chicago, they are Minneapolis and Detroit.
Greater Detroit actually has the strongest connection to Japan in the United States due to the automobile industry. Lots of research and development is on-going between Greater Detroit and Nagoya and Osaka and the like. This is why Greater Detroit is host to conferences that internationally represent the Automotive Industry. This is why Greater Detroit has a broad base of business travelers from overseas. This is why Greater Detroit has key global industries it finds itself leading even Chicago in. This is why Greater Detroit's origin and destination numbers, airline service destinations, and accumulation of foreign airlines, retail brands, consulates, and services dwarf any city in the Midwest not named Chicago and Minneapolis. Greater Detroit also engages in more trade and shipping than does Chicagoland and leads all of the Midwest in overseas trade, impressive, an industry boost over even Chicago.
This isn't even touching on Greater Detroit's Arab, Persian, and general Middle-Eastern population. The largest in the United States and the most diverse one in the United States (sans New York).
Detroit and Minneapolis are plainly just on another level than these other cities in this thread, in my personal opinion based off facts I've compiled over the years. I would argue that it is something anyone with commonsense and an understanding of facts can see for themselves. I have the statistics already compiled to back up every word of what I've said in this post. So, I'm pretty interested in statistics and facts from the detractors that would prove me wrong there. If I don't see those statistics or facts, then I'll roll the argument up to "insurmountable" and leave it at that.
I'm not arguing for any city, but I think it's unfair to say that Minneapolis is an international because it houses two large refugee groups. It's not an immigration destination. It also has below-average Latino and US-born black populations.
Is Minneapolis international on the whole? No not really. The cities in the US that are truly international are NYC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Houston, and Boston. Arguments could be made for Philly, Seattle, Dallas, and Atlanta too. Other than that, there are no real international cities in the US.
Is it international compared to places like Pittsburgh and Cleveland? Absolutely.
Despite this, I think Cleveland and St Louis are roughly tied for the most internationally diverse metro areas in the Midwest outside the big 3, despite their very small and declining foreign city populations (also partially due to having smaller geographic city limits).
It's embarrassing that a city of St Louis size barely has 20,000 immigrants. There are blocks in New York that probably have more foreign born people than that
Agreed. Chicago is a beast. If the Midwest were a country of its own, Chicago most definitely could qualify as its primate city in addition to its premier city. It would be both.
There are only two cities in the Midwest that can give Chicago "some" hiccups in limited capacity, even if they cannot overall compete with Chicago, they are Minneapolis and Detroit.
Greater Detroit actually has the strongest connection to Japan in the United States due to the automobile industry. Lots of research and development is on-going between Greater Detroit and Nagoya and Osaka and the like. This is why Greater Detroit is host to conferences that internationally represent the Automotive Industry. This is why Greater Detroit has a broad base of business travelers from overseas. This is why Greater Detroit has key global industries it finds itself leading even Chicago in. This is why Greater Detroit's origin and destination numbers, airline service destinations, and accumulation of foreign airlines, retail brands, consulates, and services dwarf any city in the Midwest not named Chicago and Minneapolis.
This isn't even touching on Greater Detroit's Arab, Persian, and general Middle-Eastern population. The largest in the United States and the most diverse one in the United States (sans New York).
Detroit and Minneapolis are plainly just on another level than these other cities in this thread. It is something anyone with commonsense and an understanding of facts can see for themselves. I have the statistics already compiled to back up every word of what I'm saying. So, I'm just interested in statistics and facts from the detractors that would prove me wrong there. If I don't see those statistics or facts, then I'll roll the argument up to "insurmountable" and leave it at that.
Is someone trying to say that one of these other cities ranks above Minneapolis and Detroit? I can't believe anyone would believe that. Well, maybe some Cleveland backers, but otherwise...?
Is Minneapolis international on the whole? No not really. The cities in the US that are truly international are NYC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, DC, Houston, and Boston. Arguments could be made for Philly, Seattle, Dallas, and Atlanta too. Other than that, there are no real international cities in the US.
Is it international compared to places like Pittsburgh and Cleveland? Absolutely.
I would venture that a larger percentage of Pittsburgh and Cleveland immigrants moved there by choice, rather than being placed there, and their immigrant populations are probably more diverse. And then there's the matter of that tiny African-American population
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So that alone is more international than any other airport listed.....
