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The legacy of the cities is absolutely important, because cities that were more important in the pre-automobile era have more impressive urban infrastructure. They also have a legacy cultural institutions, better architecture and more interesting neighborhoods. It makes the cities better places to live. I have a job, the aame job I'd have just about any city, so your growth is meaningless to me. As all of these cities rebound from their Rust Belt decline, those legacy amenities will set them apart from cities that were unimportant and 50 years ago.
Possibly....but you fail to mention or understand that places are passing them in the last 20 years...and adding amenities that will be big time in the coming decades all while places like CLE and STL continue to stagnant, or at best hold steady.
To be honest, I am surprised at how low the immigrant population is in the city proper of Cleveland and ST Louis are ...and the fact that Cleveland is LOSING immigrants in its city proper? To me that is actually surprising and alarming all at once.
I still cannot disagree that as of today, CLE and STL are probably the most "international" outside the Midwest's big 3....but they are also not really international at all. None of these cities are. And to be honest, to someone in China or anywhere else, the only thing that any of these cities has that may make it stand out is LeBron James and the Cavs. He is well known in asia, etc.
But then again, so is KFC, and Louisville Sluggers. Many people do not even know the KY Derby is in Louisville. The STL arch has to be up there. I recall seeing a US postcard with it in Japan. Columbus? I am not sure it is well known abroad, but certainly in the states, it has attracted a great international presence, largely Asian. This is all OSU.
Milwaukee? Beer and Cheese? I mean seriously, think about how many cities WAY bigger than even St Louis you know nothing about? Guilin, China anyone? About the same size as Atlanta metro wise....
How about Indianapolis? It did host the super bowl most recently....that may mean more than a lot of stuff mentioned here...maybe a few have heard of the Indy 500?
I am with Red John...I have been to the "ethnic" villages....but why does the city proper have such low foreign born in Cleveland...and dropping RAPIDLY? I am aware of Little Italy, Slavic Village, etc. Let's see some numbers for 2014 or 2014 Foreign Born in Cuyahoga County and St Louis County...if they are the clear winners then why?
Why when Columbus has 100k foreign born...and when Louisville's foreign population has increased 42% and there is no slowing in it by all indications? And when Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, et all has some impressive numbers? I honestly am not sure there is a clear winner and people are not looking at KC, Buffalo, Pitt or Louisville since they are concerned with geography, and that is not the OP's intent.
Possibly....but you fail to mention or understand that places are passing them in the last 20 years...and adding amenities that will be big time in the coming decades all while places like CLE and STL continue to stagnant, or at best hold steady.
To be honest, I am surprised at how low the immigrant population is in the city proper of Cleveland and ST Louis are ...and the fact that Cleveland is LOSING immigrants in its city proper? To me that is actually surprising and alarming all at once.
I still cannot disagree that as of today, CLE and STL are probably the most "international" outside the Midwest's big 3....but they are also not really international at all. None of these cities are. And to be honest, to someone in China or anywhere else, the only thing that any of these cities has that may make it stand out is LeBron James and the Cavs. He is well known in asia, etc.
But then again, so is KFC, and Louisville Sluggers. Many people do not even know the KY Derby is in Louisville. The STL arch has to be up there. I recall seeing a US postcard with it in Japan. Columbus? I am not sure it is well known abroad, but certainly in the states, it has attracted a great international presence, largely Asian. This is all OSU.
Milwaukee? Beer and Cheese? I mean seriously, think about how many cities WAY bigger than even St Louis you know nothing about? Guilin, China anyone? About the same size as Atlanta metro wise....
How about Indianapolis? It did host the super bowl most recently....that may mean more than a lot of stuff mentioned here...maybe a few have heard of the Indy 500?
I am with Red John...I have been to the "ethnic" villages....but why does the city proper have such low foreign born in Cleveland...and dropping RAPIDLY? I am aware of Little Italy, Slavic Village, etc. Let's see some numbers for 2014 or 2014 Foreign Born in Cuyahoga County and St Louis County...if they are the clear winners then why?
Why when Columbus has 100k foreign born...and when Louisville's foreign population has increased 42% and there is no slowing in it by all indications? And when Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, et all has some impressive numbers? I honestly am not sure there is a clear winner and people are not looking at KC, Buffalo, Pitt or Louisville since they are concerned with geography, and that is not the OP's intent.
Clear winners are Cleveland and St. Louis with maybe an argument for Columbus or Pittsburgh. Easy enough to base it on global corporate headquarters, internationally known institutions of many kinds, and absolute number of immigrant population. Could also argue for international direct flights but it's doubtful that'll be fruitful. The distance among several cities to Cleveland and St. Louis isn't necessarily huge, but the OP wasn't really asking for "magnitude" nor what factors that would entail.
Clear winners are Cleveland and St. Louis with maybe an argument for Columbus or Pittsburgh. Easy enough to base it on global corporate headquarters, internationally known institutions of many kinds, and absolute number of immigrant population. Could also argue for international direct flights but it's doubtful that'll be fruitful. The distance among several cities to Cleveland and St. Louis isn't necessarily huge, but the OP wasn't really asking for "magnitude" nor what factors that would entail.
...but the facts are that the city proper of St Louis and Cleveland have very low numbers of international immigrants...Cleveland has dipped well below 20k and dropping fast in the city!
It looks like Cuyahoga County only has 86k Foreign born....this is less than the city of Columbus....
Clear winners are Cleveland and St. Louis with maybe an argument for Columbus or Pittsburgh. Easy enough to base it on global corporate headquarters, internationally known institutions of many kinds, and absolute number of immigrant population...
You can't be serious. First, based solely upon the criteria of "global corporate headquarters," such a grandiose conclusion is outright laughable and second, based upon "internationally known institutions of many kinds," the conclusion is highly debatable. A major rethink is in order.
Possibly....but you fail to mention or understand that places are passing them in the last 20 years...and adding amenities that will be big time in the coming decades all while places like CLE and STL continue to stagnant, or at best hold steady.
To be honest, I am surprised at how low the immigrant population is in the city proper of Cleveland and ST Louis are ...and the fact that Cleveland is LOSING immigrants in its city proper? To me that is actually surprising and alarming all at once.
I still cannot disagree that as of today, CLE and STL are probably the most "international" outside the Midwest's big 3....but they are also not really international at all. None of these cities are. And to be honest, to someone in China or anywhere else, the only thing that any of these cities has that may make it stand out is LeBron James and the Cavs. He is well known in asia, etc.
But then again, so is KFC, and Louisville Sluggers. Many people do not even know the KY Derby is in Louisville. The STL arch has to be up there. I recall seeing a US postcard with it in Japan. Columbus? I am not sure it is well known abroad, but certainly in the states, it has attracted a great international presence, largely Asian. This is all OSU.
Milwaukee? Beer and Cheese? I mean seriously, think about how many cities WAY bigger than even St Louis you know nothing about? Guilin, China anyone? About the same size as Atlanta metro wise....
How about Indianapolis? It did host the super bowl most recently....that may mean more than a lot of stuff mentioned here...maybe a few have heard of the Indy 500?
I am with Red John...I have been to the "ethnic" villages....but why does the city proper have such low foreign born in Cleveland...and dropping RAPIDLY? I am aware of Little Italy, Slavic Village, etc. Let's see some numbers for 2014 or 2014 Foreign Born in Cuyahoga County and St Louis County...if they are the clear winners then why?
Why when Columbus has 100k foreign born...and when Louisville's foreign population has increased 42% and there is no slowing in it by all indications? And when Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, et all has some impressive numbers? I honestly am not sure there is a clear winner and people are not looking at KC, Buffalo, Pitt or Louisville since they are concerned with geography, and that is not the OP's intent.
I'm not sure why percentage of foreign born population is an indication of a cosmopolitan city to you? There are towns with nothing but a Tyson chicken plant with huge foreign-born populations. Sometimes foreign-born populations are large because Catholic Charities or some other NGO relocates refugees there, and the city becomes a magnet for that group (see the large Somali and Hmong populations in Minneapolis.).
Having a high number of refugees, be they actual refugees or de facto economic refugees is not the measure of a cosmopolitan city. And as far as decreasing immigrant populations within city limits: you're looking at the future. As cities gentrify, immigrant enclaves I've been pushed out to the suburbs all over the country.
...I still cannot disagree that as of today, CLE and STL are probably the most "international" outside the Midwest's big 3....but they are also not really international at all. None of these cities are...
In a perfect world, this would be an appropriate epitaph ending this debate; unfortunately, it's not a perfect world and this thread will most definitely continue umpteenth pages.
People are just championing their own cities. None of these is a stand-out, or clear winner. Several of these cities shine in certain areas, and retreat in others. There is not one of these cities that wins in all categories...not a one. This thread will likely go on and on, because there are boosters for certain cities that won't give up. That's just the way it is.
Um, those are the numbers from the BEA. You even used the same correct overall 2014 GDP figure that I used, but you calculated the per capita figure wrong, either purposely or in error. So if you quarrel with my numbers then you quarrel with one of your own as well. And the Wikipedia article I cited shows the 2010 GDP figure in 2014 dollars, so that is correct as well.
Here's the actual PDF report straight from the BEA, so no roundabout-way links from me:
As you can see, the official 2014 metro GDP report has the exact same overall 2014 number that you, I and Wikipedia gave. And it has the exact same 2010 number that I and Wikipedia gave.
Again, you calculated wrong.
The per-capita figure I got directly from the link. I didn't calculate anything. Here is the link: http://bea.gov/itable/iTable.cfm?Req...-1&7093=levels
Go to the Gross Domestic Product for Metro Area link, select Real per capita GDP, select the Indy metro, select All Years.
No conspiracy involved. I didn't see per-capita on your link, though. Are you sure you have not miscalculated it?
...but the facts are that the city proper of St Louis and Cleveland have very low numbers of international immigrants...Cleveland has dipped well below 20k and dropping fast in the city!
It looks like Cuyahoga County only has 86k Foreign born....this is less than the city of Columbus....
The per-capita figure I got directly from the link. I didn't calculate anything. Here is the link: http://bea.gov/itable/iTable.cfm?Req...-1&7093=levels
Go to the Gross Domestic Product for Metro Area link, select Real per capita GDP, select the Indy metro, select All Years.
No conspiracy involved. I didn't see per-capita on your link, though. Are you sure you have not miscalculated it?
Ah, okay, so that is chained 2009 dollars. My mistake, and excuse me. Please accept my apologies! I assure you I didn't calculate wrong, I just did so using the figures from the PDF I linked to, which are in 2014 dollars. They are both right, but using chained 2009 dollars accounts for inflation, so it gives a better historical perspective and is better for comparisons over the years. Using 2014 dollars obviously shows better the actual figure in today's monetary values by being what it was actually worth in 2014.
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You even used the same correct overall 2014 GDP figure that I used, but you calculated the per capita figure wrong, either purposely or in error. So if you quarrel with my numbers then you quarrel with one of your own as well. And the Wikipedia article I cited shows the 2010 GDP figure in 2014 dollars, so that is correct as well.
