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The Northeast shaped the Midwest. Much like it shaped South Florida.
Uh, yes New England gave us our form of English but it has since evolved to be its own thing within the same North umbrella via East Anglia but if you read the paper, it isn't saying that Yankees caused the shift. The shift happened long after Yankee settlement.
NCVS evolved by itself independent of New England.
That's not what Labov says.
Quote:
To understand the great differences in dialect distribution in the North and Midland, it is necessary to follow the differences in patterns of westward migration. The New England stream was a community movement on a large scale, continuing the model of large-scale migration from England to the New World.
Uh, yes New England gave us our form of English but it has since evolved to be its own thing within the same North umbrella via East Anglia but if you read the paper, it isn't saying that Yankees caused the shift. The shift happened long after Yankee settlement.
And it's not only the influence on speech patterns. Midwesterners on C-D often talk about New England's influence on their region's architecture and politics as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDBaumgardner
Study the early history of Cleveland, you'll discover that this entire region has very strong ties to New England. There are plenty of visible roots to NEW ENGLAND in and around Cleveland, someone would have to be blind not to recognized this fact. Google places like: Old South Church in Kirtland, Chardon or Chagrin Falls - you'll see.
The love for New England is astounding. But is it reciprocated?
You realize that the quintessential Great Lakes / Northern state of Michigan actually was an extension of New York both culturally, linguistically, and demographically? Yankees didn't make their way to the Midwest, they definitely settled in the Great Lakes and that my friend is a historic fact. This is why the Great Lakes should not be mistakenly grouped with states like Missouri or Iowa as being "Midwest". There IS a Yankee history thus separating the NORTH from the Midwest/Midland region.
Using the connection to New York to bolster Chicago's "northerness."
Using the connection to New York to bolster Chicago's "northerness."
Regardless of where the term came from, Chicago is still every bit as Northern as New York. This is a circular argument that goes nowhere. And regardless, New York didn't influence Baltimore, so I see little reason as to why we're having the argument over it as to why Baltimore is more Northern than St. Louis. In terms of its white population, Chicago is more Northern than Philadelphia, where Baltimore draws the majority of its Northeast influence.
Regardless of where the term came from, Chicago is still every bit as Northern as New York. This is a circular argument that goes nowhere. And regardless, New York didn't influence Baltimore, so I see little reason as to why we're having the argument over it as to why Baltimore is more Northern than St. Louis. In terms of its white population, Chicago is more Northern than Philadelphia, where Baltimore draws the majority of its Northeast influence.
You mean the "northerness" that is based on the influence of an East Coast city that's 800 miles away...
Regardless of where the term came from, Chicago is still every bit as Northern as New York. This is a circular argument that goes nowhere. And regardless, New York didn't influence Baltimore, so I see little reason as to why we're having the argument over it as to why Baltimore is more Northern than St. Louis. In terms of its white population,Chicago is more Northern than Philadelphia, where Baltimore draws the majority of its Northeast influence.
I wouldn't say that at all. Philly didn't really have white Southerners moving to the city en masse during the Great Migration.
EddieOlSkool said that the Upper Midwest is more Northern because of its New York influence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool
You realize that the quintessential Great Lakes / Northern state of Michigan actually was an extension of New York both culturally, linguistically, and demographically? Yankees didn't make their way to the Midwest, they definitely settled in the Great Lakes and that my friend is a historic fact. This is why the Great Lakes should not be mistakenly grouped with states like Missouri or Iowa as being "Midwest". There IS a Yankee history thus separating the NORTH from the Midwest/Midland region.
Sort of interesting how "Yankee" and "northern" become synonymous here. What was Philadelphia considered during the early to mid 19th Century when sectionalism was reaching fever pitch?
Sounds like there's a little bit of Southern fun in NYC.
And that's a great thing!
Why do you perceive "southern" to be some sort of slander?
Maybe 2e1m5a has seen different, but you never see anyone say New York is a "northern" city "like Cincinnati" or "like Chicago." No need to reference other cities in this argument because we are the point of reference.
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