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Give me a break on the whole "poll numbers" thing. We know the media is lying through their teeth about this election - The people in Colorado are more skeptical of Hillary than you'd think. Like I said, I haven't seen any signs!
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Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
As an Arizonan I can understand that sentiment towards Californians. Neighboring the state brings a lot of issues I can say. It has completely changed Arizona I think for the worst (excessive transplant numbers) and I'm sure Oregon has the same issue. The difference though is that Arizona and Oregon will attract different types of Californians, which again I'm not too sure about. I tend to like Northern Californians more than Southern Californians from my experiences, seeing as I deal with Californians on a regular basis. A good chunk of my college friends are from the Bay, in and around Silicon Valley for the most part. Arizona however is more attractive to SoCals than Oregon which I suspect is more attractive to Bay Area people and so on.
Also I love cold water. I shower in cold water regularly, probably around 60s or so. And I like cold rain. My only qualms with weather is if it's regularly 100+ (I've been through enough of those to last for five lifetimes) and if it's incredibly windy. I don't like wind... Unless it's 100+ lol.
I'm a bicoastal person but I generally put the Air conditioning on in the car when it's 35 in the morning. Denver is great for that in March and while I like hot weather I sweat like a pig in it. Depends on genes I suppose.
But being bicoastal I would say it's not CA in CO that's the problem, it's some of the cold, passive aggressive Midwest/upper Midwest that really rub me the wrong way. Culturally we are so different it's not even funny - especially when it comes to sense of humor. And there's a lot of them now in Denver (although based on immigration/migration patterns they Are probably well represented in PDX as well).
People can rip on CA for being stuck up but at least they are not miserable, lying, white trash from Iowa (kidding to a certain extent).
Downtown Portland has a ton of local businesses (I'd guess a lot more than Denver but haven't actually counted), and it also has big stores including Nordstrom and City Target that Denver would kill for. The latter was the point I was making about large-scale retail.
I just don't understand why people always act as if Denver's downtown has a few shops here and there. The mall is literally a mile long and packed with retail. A few more department stores would be great, but the options aren't as bad as people make it out to be.
I think the big reason DT Denver doesn't have as many stores as it could is because Cherry Creek Shopping Center is right up the street.
Give me a break on the whole "poll numbers" thing. We know the media is lying through their teeth about this election - The people in Colorado are more skeptical of Hillary than you'd think. Like I said, I haven't seen any signs!
I'm a bicoastal person but I generally put the Air conditioning on in the car when it's 35 in the morning. Denver is great for that in March and while I like hot weather I sweat like a pig in it. Depends on genes I suppose.
But being bicoastal I would say it's not CA in CO that's the problem, it's some of the cold, passive aggressive Midwest/upper Midwest that really rub me the wrong way. Culturally we are so different it's not even funny - especially when it comes to sense of humor. And there's a lot of them now in Denver (although based on immigration/migration patterns they Are probably well represented in PDX as well).
People can rip on CA for being stuck up but at least they are not miserable, lying, white trash from Iowa (kidding to a certain extent).
I agree about CO being more libertarian-though very center and even left-leaning, overall- and I even agree about a lack of enthusiasm around Clinton (though there are definitely a lot of Bernie fans that will go Democrat), but overall my assessment is from more of a statistics and demographics perspective than anything else. They just don't bear out to your postulation- a high number of latino voters and educated people will not vote for Trump- and when there's consensus across polling and historically, it's not a matter of lying through their teeth, as you say. I'm not sure how long you've been in Denver, but I'd be surprised if Trump comes within 5 points of winning the state, let alone the City of Denver. I will give you this: The number of independents could make things interesting.
Granted, it's not as liberal as Portland. But I think you'd be very surprised at how conservative most of OR (and WA) are outside of the cities in the NW.
Regarding the CA sentiment, I have no problem with folks from there- there are simply too many people to generalize them all as the same. But the joke about the state transitioning into "Cali"rado has been around for as long as I can remember, though I actually noticed it more in mountain towns. Overall, people are more irritated with Texans, but the complaint is really directed towards anyone from anywhere else that comes in and buys up places- especially obscenely large vacation houses.
Finally, that's an interesting attitude towards midwesterners. I generally found most people (and you're right, there are a bunch) from MN, WI, IL, MI, etc. to be very nice, grounded people. But, to each his or her own...
I wouldn't call Colorado left leaning. More of it is right leaning, but the significant population that leans left in the Pueblo, Denver, Boulder areas turns the state overall into a purple political battleground.
Never spent much time in Portland, but have driven through it a couple of times. Highways and traffic is a mess. Denver traffic is thick, but not nearly as confusing as Portland.
Oh, you can't pump you own gas in Oregon. Its all full service.
Altitude in Denver is a big deal. Sun damage to your bod is a year round concern. Altitude also makes the weather wildely variable.
All the water around Portland means moss grows on everything.
The Columbia River is impressive, Period. Nothing in Colorado compares to it. Lots of wineries popping up along its banks all the way west into the Tri-Cities area. And Cheese from Tillamook rocks.
Menver is a sterotype from the last century. It isn't applicable any more, but I've heard a lot of complaints about commitmentphobe guys there.
Denver has historically been known as the Queen City of the Plains, because it isn't in the mountains. However, because of that, they have a lot of reservoirs through out and outside the city. For casual watersports, there are opportunities, but you will not have endless miles of slow moving rivers to explore like you will find in Oregon.
I-70 west of Denver is a drag to drive on Fridays from 3-pm and Sunday from noon to 5, but there are more mountains in the state to visit than just those immediately west of Denver.
Denver still has a % of population that hangs on to its old cowboy days. The National Western Stock show is a huge event that draws horse and stock traders as well as Cowboys from all over the country. Naturally this show attracts lots of Texans, which we like to complain about because they build houses along sky and ridge lines and they act silly on ski slopes. We lump Californians in there too, but show me a state in the western US that doesn't complain about Californians.
Oregon west of Portland reminds me more of the east coast because you run into little towns every 30 miles or so nestled in between hills and vast expanses of forest. Colorado mountains can be extreme enough to limit population density to narrow valleys along waterways.
I wouldn't call Colorado left leaning. More of it is right leaning, but the significant population that leans left in the Pueblo, Denver, Boulder areas turns the state overall into a purple political battleground.
Never spent much time in Portland, but have driven through it a couple of times. Highways and traffic is a mess. Denver traffic is thick, but not nearly as confusing as Portland.
Oh, you can't pump you own gas in Oregon. Its all full service.
Altitude in Denver is a big deal. Sun damage to your bod is a year round concern. Altitude also makes the weather wildely variable.
All the water around Portland means moss grows on everything.
The Columbia River is impressive, Period. Nothing in Colorado compares to it. Lots of wineries popping up along its banks all the way west into the Tri-Cities area. And Cheese from Tillamook rocks.
Menver is a sterotype from the last century. It isn't applicable any more, but I've heard a lot of complaints about commitmentphobe guys there.
Denver has historically been known as the Queen City of the Plains, because it isn't in the mountains. However, because of that, they have a lot of reservoirs through out and outside the city. For casual watersports, there are opportunities, but you will not have endless miles of slow moving rivers to explore like you will find in Oregon.
I-70 west of Denver is a drag to drive on Fridays from 3-pm and Sunday from noon to 5, but there are more mountains in the state to visit than just those immediately west of Denver.
Denver still has a % of population that hangs on to its old cowboy days. The National Western Stock show is a huge event that draws horse and stock traders as well as Cowboys from all over the country. Naturally this show attracts lots of Texans, which we like to complain about because they build houses along sky and ridge lines and they act silly on ski slopes. We lump Californians in there too, but show me a state in the western US that doesn't complain about Californians.
Oregon west of Portland reminds me more of the east coast because you run into little towns every 30 miles or so nestled in between hills and vast expanses of forest. Colorado mountains can be extreme enough to limit population density to narrow valleys along waterways.
Let me clarify- people aren't generally "in your face" about anything in most of the state, and compared to where I spent most of my life in the south- and even other conservative areas in the SW- it's a milder form that isn't preachy or religious- except here and there in your area. Yes, the Front Range is generally blue, but so are most of the ski towns, so the influence of progressive politics goes further than just the Denver/Boulder Metro. But- they're not the only rural towns in the state and small mountain towns like Rifle and Meeker are definitely full of old cowboys. I'm not passing judgment, mind you, I actually find it rather balanced- purple with a "live and let live" attitude. And again, "live and let live" is a lot more tolerable (IMHO) than the minute I cross into KS, NE, or WY, which seem to have a palpably different feel to them.
Let me clarify- people aren't generally "in your face" about anything in most of the state, and compared to where I spent most of my life in the south- and even other conservative areas in the SW- it's a milder form that isn't preachy or religious- except here and there in your area. Yes, the Front Range is generally blue, but so are most of the ski towns, so the influence of progressive politics goes further than just the Denver/Boulder Metro. But- they're not the only rural towns in the state and small mountain towns like Rifle and Meeker are definitely full of old cowboys. I'm not passing judgment, mind you, I actually find it rather balanced- purple with a "live and let live" attitude. And again, "live and let live" is a lot more tolerable (IMHO) than the minute I cross into KS, NE, or WY, which seem to have a palpably different feel to them.
So Portland does not have a "live and let live" vibe? At least on social freedoms (as both are left-leaning cities and therefore are not so live and let live economically)?
I just don't understand why people always act as if Denver's downtown has a few shops here and there. The mall is literally a mile long and packed with retail. A few more department stores would be great, but the options aren't as bad as people make it out to be.
I think the big reason DT Denver doesn't have as many stores as it could is because Cherry Creek Shopping Center is right up the street.
16th is a good retail street but not in terms of durable goods like clothes. It's more about restaurants on many blocks. LoDo is similar.
I'm used to having multiple department stores. In my city there are multiple individual stores the size of Pavilions, plus a lot of midsized and smaller retail. Portland is pretty good too. It's a very different dynamic when people actually come to your downtown to buy things.
So Portland does not have a "live and let live" vibe? At least on social freedoms (as both are left-leaning cities and therefore are not so live and let live economically)?
I would say "No" to the "live and let live" with a qualification. Libertarian attitudes are a thing of the past. Up until the '90's it was a fairly accurate description. It was a combination of Libertarian bordering on Conservatism. But for some reason everyone got along. My best and truest friends still living in Portland are mostly natives with the "live and let live" attitude. Although it took awhile for me to be accepted because I was a transplant, once I was, they were the best friends I could ever hope for. They still have the "live and let live" attitude. But these are no longer the majority living in Portland. Those are the Millennials you are seeking to live near.
As the more well-to-do transplants moved in the situation became very different. If you have been lurking on the Portland Forum as you say you have been, you will know what I mean. It's all about who has the means to live where.
I will give one example though. This is the "Let them eat cake" attitude that prevails there. A few years ago the city government imposed an Arts Tax" of $35.00 on the population. No one got to vote on it. This was supposed to help bring arts supplies to students who couldn't afford them but it was to go for other uses as well. The attitude of those who supported it was "$35.00 is nothing, everyone can afford that." In fact that was a quote from someone who wrote in to the local newspaper opinions column. Now $35.00, there was talk of raising it to $50.00. It's still $35.00 but that can be a lot of money for the many struggling in Portland to make ends meet. For some it's grocery money. There were those who protested the tax as illegal but the Portland City government is as crooked as any in this country. I have personally born witness to that.
As far as social freedoms, in a way, a prevailing attitude in Portland is militantly liberal. My way or the highway. There are definitely social classes. Today it's slowly evolving from Subarus to Beemers. But the attitude is the same; conform or be an outsider.
If you believe you will be accepted in Portland just because you are a Millennial, think again. Don't expect to befriend the Millennials who live in the more desirable, "walkable" convenient neighborhoods if you yourself cannot afford to live there. It's a class thing. Economics and social freedoms go hand in hand.
If you have a differing opinion you will not be accepted. If you are the wrong age you will not be accepted and if you have been reading the Portland forum you should have seen that often the color of your skin will keep you from being accepted. I have always called myself a Liberal but I will take Conservatives any day over the snob like liberal attitudes that prevails in Portland.
Of course, as in any city, Portland has a sub-culture. This is the one that gets TV shows and coverage by Social Media. Those are people who are usually in their twenty's who live 3-5 roommates in an apartment, have several jobs to make ends meet or live in tents in the parks. They are still young enough to indulge in their fantasies of Utopia. But I have seen many who have tried to get decent jobs and make a life fail because the opportunities are just not there unless you have special skills that are in demand.
I don't understand though, why you don't ask your questions in the Portland forum. If you've been lurking there you already are aware of what I am telling you especially from those who have fled Portland for the 'burbs for these (and other) reasons. Are you just posting here in hopes to find better opinions from those less familiar with Portland? I would say the same for Denver if it's the same situation.
^^Denver, that is, the entire metro, is pretty Libertarian. Politically, we go purple, though the pundits who don't live here write us up differently. Democratic governor, won re-election by a hair. Dem and Rep senators. 4Rs, 3Ds in congress. Republicans control the state senate by 1 seat, Dems control the house.
The "My way or the highway" you describe is more like Boulder.
By all means, everyone welcome to come visit our forums and ask questions. The Colorado and Denver forums are more integrated than what I've seen in other city/state boards.
16th is a good retail street but not in terms of durable goods like clothes. It's more about restaurants on many blocks. LoDo is similar.
I'm used to having multiple department stores. In my city there are multiple individual stores the size of Pavilions, plus a lot of midsized and smaller retail. Portland is pretty good too. It's a very different dynamic when people actually come to your downtown to buy things.
I see what you mean. I just don't think the options for shopping are bad at all considering there's a huge upscale shopping area 3 miles away
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