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I'm American, and I also work in healthcare. I agree to an extent, but maybe he's being too extreme? Like saying stuff like Toronto would have to "shut down" if it had a crime rate anywhere near Brooklyns? lol cmon. Or Brooklyn's social services are "nothing short of terrible".
Also, I really do not want this to turn into a political debate (especially after last nights debate, I don't wanna hear anymore politics).
This is also more of a US vs Canada, Country vs. Country thing, not a city vs. city thing.
I do think he has some good points, but he's going about them wrong and all the blatantly incorrect statements isn't helping either.
You're telling me you can't why people are saying that? Not even a little bit?
> calling Brooklyn a suburb, and has no "urban vibe" (even though Brooklyn is more urban than any city in Canada)
> implying Brooklyn has no art scene, despite Brooklyn being known as a creative capital of NYC
> implying Brooklyn has no good museums, food, shopping, nightlife, music, or culture
> claiming Brooklyn has a bad reputation, and people only know it from a 40 year-old sitcom
I can't speak for mooguy, but I'm not sure much of what they said was extreme. Sure, Toronto probably wouldn't shut down if the crime rate spiked by 50%, but I'm sure it would be considered an emergency of some sort (that should be the case for any severe spike in crime in any city).
They were absolutely wrong on Brooklyn being a suburb, so yeah.
I don't think they implied that Brooklyn has no good museums/food/shopping/etc. Toronto is a strong world city with the best museums in all of Canada. My impression is that mooguy was saying that part of any city (even BK) can't compete with what Toronto has...which was emphasized multiple times. I'm not sure if that's really true or not, but it seems likely, given that Manhattan has so much. And I know BK has good museums, but are there as many quality museums as Toronto?
RE: Brooklyn's reputation outside the US, I'm not sure what it's like. I assumed that Canadians don't know what present-day Brooklyn is like, but I'm not sure how that's bashing. A reputation's a reputation, regardless of whether it's deserved or not.
In terms of healthcare, I do think our SYSTEM is an atrocity. Compared to Canada, our healthcare system is out of control...but that's for another thread.
In terms of healthcare, I do think our SYSTEM is an atrocity. Compared to Canada, our healthcare system is out of control...but that's for another thread.
I agree .
But yeah, that's a separate discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
I can't speak for mooguy, but I'm not sure much of what they said was extreme. Sure, Toronto probably wouldn't shut down if the crime rate spiked by 50%, but I'm sure it would be considered an emergency of some sort (that should be the case for any severe spike in crime in any city).
I don't think they implied that Brooklyn has no good museums/food/shopping/etc. Toronto is a strong world city with the best museums in all of Canada. My impression is that mooguy was saying that part of any city (even BK) can't compete with what Toronto has...which was emphasized multiple times. I'm not sure if that's really true or not, but it seems likely, given that Manhattan has so much. And I know BK has good museums, but are there as many quality museums as Toronto?
RE: Brooklyn's reputation outside the US, I'm not sure what it's like. I assumed that Canadians don't know what present-day Brooklyn is like, but I'm not sure how that's bashing. A reputation's a reputation, regardless of whether it's deserved or not.
I disagree with that. I think Brooklyn can easily compete with Toronto on almost all of those categories listed. It was definitely, clearly worded as if Brooklyn cannot compete in those categories, and gets completely "blown out of the water" (art, nightlife, culture, food, music, etc). Also remember that Manhattan is not all of NYC.
I also don't think he meant a sudden spike in crime, I think he just meant crime rate in general. That is very extreme to say Toronto would be "shut down".
I think Toronto wins in some of those categories and Brooklyn in others. It's not a complete blowout at all, for either side (except maybe transportation and urbanity to Brooklyn, and cost of living and quality of life to Toronto).
As far as museums, I honestly don't know enough about museums in either places. I don't go to a lot of museums. Maybe I should though.
International Reputation: It's not "bashing" just to not know much about Brooklyn, but saying something like "Brooklyn has a lousy reputation worldwide and people only know it from a 40 year-old sitcom" is kind of degrading.
I don't know enough about either cities international reputation, but I'd honestly be very surprised if that were true.
Last edited by That_One_Guy; 09-27-2016 at 01:30 PM..
While I don't have a dog in this fight, anyone who thinks that Brooklyn's international reputation is due to "Welcome Back Kotter" has probably been cryogenically frozen the last 40 years.
Brooklyn is VERY well known worldwide as a hipster/trendy magnet. You will be in random places like Prague or Osaka or Sao Paulo and see some hipster restaurant or boutique referencing Brooklyn. Another example- the leading department store in Paris (Bon Marche) recently had a storewide Brooklyn exhibition, with the entire flagship dedicated to all things Brooklyn.
In France they even use the term "Tres Brooklyn" to connote hipster stuff. I'm guessing Parisians won't be uttering "Tres Toronto" or seeing their leading department stores converted to all-Toronto themes. Toronto, globally, doesn't have much of a rep. at all, besides big Canadian city.
While I don't have a dog in this fight, anyone who thinks that Brooklyn's international reputation is due to "Welcome Back Kotter" has probably been cryogenically frozen the last 40 years.
Brooklyn is VERY well known worldwide as a hipster/trendy magnet. You will be in random places like Prague or Osaka or Sao Paulo and see some hipster restaurant or boutique referencing Brooklyn. Another example- the leading department store in Paris (Bon Marche) recently had a storewide Brooklyn exhibition, with the entire flagship dedicated to all things Brooklyn.
In France they even use the term "Tres Brooklyn" to connote hipster stuff. I'm guessing Parisians won't be uttering "Tres Toronto" or seeing their leading department stores converted to all-Toronto themes. Toronto, globally, doesn't have much of a rep. at all, besides big Canadian city.
I think it's almost a certainty that Toronto won't be competing with Brooklyn/NYC anytime soon for global or cultural reputation or recognition. Brooklyn is just a much older/established/culturally influential city with much greater cultural and global significance than Toronto, while Toronto only grew out of its former provincial capital shadows in the last 2 decades due to an explosion of new immigration and business growth. However, I am very optimistic about the future prospects in both cities. Because it is a younger city, there are still many things that Toronto can do right - such as proper city planning around transit oriented developments while building a global city that is also accessible and livable for ordinary middle-class folks. That has always been Toronto's historical strength (low cost of living among major cities, wide availability of subsidized housing for low income families, good social safety net, and wide access to high quality K-12 public schools) and something that Toronto should always strive for in the coming decades. Reputation wise, I don't think Toronto will be competing with the likes of London or NYC or Brooklyn anytime soon.
In France they even use the term "Tres Brooklyn" to connote hipster stuff. I'm guessing Parisians won't be uttering "Tres Toronto" or seeing their leading department stores converted to all-Toronto themes. Toronto, globally, doesn't have much of a rep. at all, besides big Canadian city.
Well, Vogue magazine did recently rank Toronto's Queen Street West as #2 in their list of "The World's Coolest Neighbourhoods". Bushwick in Brooklyn was #7.
While I don't have a dog in this fight, anyone who thinks that Brooklyn's international reputation is due to "Welcome Back Kotter" has probably been cryogenically frozen the last 40 years.
Brooklyn is VERY well known worldwide as a hipster/trendy magnet. You will be in random places like Prague or Osaka or Sao Paulo and see some hipster restaurant or boutique referencing Brooklyn. Another example- the leading department store in Paris (Bon Marche) recently had a storewide Brooklyn exhibition, with the entire flagship dedicated to all things Brooklyn.
In France they even use the term "Tres Brooklyn" to connote hipster stuff. I'm guessing Parisians won't be uttering "Tres Toronto" or seeing their leading department stores converted to all-Toronto themes. Toronto, globally, doesn't have much of a rep. at all, besides big Canadian city.
Haha, I figured Brooklyn's rep would have to do with hipsters.
I Google'd a little bit of what you're talking about. So it seems Brooklyn's international reputation basically = Williamsburg.
That makes sense. Williamsburg is a prime example of present day, 2010's Brooklyn. Williamsburg is also the leading neighborhood of the recent turnaround and gentrification + rent prices that rival Manhattan in Brooklyn. It's also one of the most happening neighborhoods in all of NYC, but only in the past decade or so.
I would argue that Bushwick is the new hipster capital of today. I'd give it a few years until Bushwick gets more internationally known though. Williamsburg 2016 is not as hipster as it used to be, but Williamsburg will always be the neighborhood that started all of this, so I guess in that way it will always be the hipster capital, even as the "real hipsters" are moving to Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, etc.
It will also probably always be more internationally known and touristy than the other hipster neighborhoods in North Brooklyn, being right next to Manhattan and having a bridge, named after itself, connecting it directly to Manhattan.
Williamsburg already is getting really touristy. When I go out in Williamsburg I meet people from all over the world. There are some rooftop bars and clubs there with amazing views of Manhattan too. Actually, I hung out with a group of people from Toronto that I met just this past Saturday night in Williamsburg, funnily enough...
Last edited by That_One_Guy; 09-27-2016 at 04:53 PM..
Reason: accidentally a word
Well, Vogue magazine did recently rank Toronto's Queen Street West as #2 in their list of "The World's Coolest Neighbourhoods". Bushwick in Brooklyn was #7.
"As far as buzz goes, few neighborhoods garner as much attention—globally—as Bushwick. Believe the hype"
hmmm maybe Bushwick is more well-known internationally than I thought from my last post. It's hard to know what the international reputation is of the city that you live in. I mean I know NYC's reputation, but not really Brooklyn specifically.
What do you feel like Brooklyn's general reputation is in Canada? Is it hipsters? Crime? Hip Hop? Graffit/grit? B.I.G.? JAY Z? Coney Island? Brooklyn Bridge? Overall positive or negative?
I feel like in the US when people think Toronto they think of Drake and Rob Ford, but I think most Americans would view it positively though. As far as the actual city, I don't know if Americans really know too much about it. It might be due to the fact that it's a fairly new major city or that we're Americans and we don't know about Canada, lol sorry (I have been to Toronto, I'm just trying to generalize the average American public's view). Obviously I can't speak for everyone though.
That makes sense. Williamsburg is a prime example of present day, 2010's Brooklyn. Williamsburg is also the leading neighborhood of the recent turnaround and gentrification + rent prices that rival Manhattan in Brooklyn. It's also one of the most happening neighborhoods in all of NYC, but only in the past decade or so.
Dumbo is actually the Brooklyn neighborhood that rival Manhattan prices. I also believe Brooklyn Heights and a few others before Williamsburg. Williamsburg is just in the headlines the most because it's hip and trendy (Girls, 2 Broke Girls etc). It's featured a lot for the "hipster" culture. But it's a bargain compared to Dumbo lol.
Last edited by StuddedLeather; 09-27-2016 at 06:00 PM..
Toronto by twenty miles. Or however many kilometers. Not even close.
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maybe Bushwick is more well-known internationally than I thought from my last post. It's hard to know what the international reputation is of the city that you live in. I mean I know NYC's reputation, but not really Brooklyn specifically.