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I was hoping to visit both places and make a better educated choice... I have visited Sandy UT but not yet CO. I had been planning to move in March when my lease was up here in CA and having time to explore more. But I just found out today that my roommate is bailing, giving me only 1 weeks notice. Since I cant afford to keep a 2 bedroom here in CA by myself (its very expensive in CA- which is why I want to leave) I was thinking this might be a good opportunity to make the move. I have looked online at studios and 1 bedrooms and both UT and CO seem to have apartments from $700-$900. Which is totally do-able if there are decent jobs in the area. The most important thing to me is having a decent job that pays the rent so I dont have to suffer with horrible roommates anymore. Maybe you can help me decide which place is best... Im really hoping
Im 31, recently single from a 7 year marraige, no kids, christian, female, non smoker (no drugs), vegetarian, huge animal lover, enjoy hiking/parks/lakes/camping. But most importantly I just want an apartment I can afford by myself, which means there has to be jobs available!! This is a must. I have 15+ years experience as a customer service manager, in both retail and office jobs. In CA I make $15-$20/hr... but our rent here is crazy. Its $1000/month just to rent a room. Most 1 bedrooms start at $1700-$2200. You either work 7 days a week or have a ****ty roommate. The one other thing Im thinking about is driving in the snow. I know there will be snow in Both UT and CO. I dont want to total my car so... does one of these places have less snow? Or snow thats easier to drive in, melts faster?
When it comes to Colorado Springs vs suburbs of Denver I will say I dont know much about Colorado Springs other than affordable apartments Ive seen online and being told there are jobs for me there. As far as Denver suburbs... I dislike a big city, traffic and smog and crime. So I would want to be in a suburb close enough to denver to drive if thats where I found work, but far enough hopefully that I dont have that urban feel every time I step outside. I saw there was an amazing mall in Lone Tree that looked like it would offer lots of job opportunitues, at least for a weekend job, in addition to a full time office job. What part of CO do you think is a better fit??
Colorado Springs has less snowfall then the others. Centennial and Sandy, Utah have much more snowfall.
It is very common for snowstorms that have a large amount of snow in the Denver area to nearly miss Colorado Springs because of the Palmer Divide.
Colorado Springs out of the three because of geography and location has the least intense winters.
Colorado Springs has big snowstorms from time to time but there have been winters where it seems to just have several light snowfalls and that is it.
People would be surprised if they knew the lack of snowfall that Colorado Springs gets some winters.
Colorado Springs though out of the three gets more hail though. It is certainly in the hail belt, also it has far more afternoons in the summer with intense storms that include hail.
Colorado Springs and the Centennial/Littleton/Englewood area in the southern Denver metropolitan area would have similar rents. A middle-of the road 1 bedroom apartment will be around $1,000/month plus utilities.
Sandy and the Southern Salt Lake City suburbs tend to be the pricier part of the area as there it is close to many, many employment centers. I would say you would likely pay $900 to $1000 a month for a 1 bedroom in Sandy. Rent in West Jordan or Millcreek tend to be a bit less and they are near Sandy.
Pollution in Salt Lake City metropolitan area is very bad typically a few weeks in January due to an inversion. The pollution is so bad in Salt Lake City and Sandy that it's almost like a light fog often but it only lasts a month or so in the middle of winter.
Colorado Springs has low pollution overall for a medium sized city. Denver and Centennial are less polluted then they used to be though.
Centennial and Sandy are some of the lowest crime rate cities for cities above 100,000 people and Colorado Springs in general is relatively safe.
The only area out of those three cities that has a moderate crime rate is parts of Southeastern Colorado Springs.
All three cities Sandy, Centennial and Colorado Springs have alot of people who really like them so it would be difficult for me to recommend one.
Last edited by lovecrowds; 11-23-2016 at 03:26 AM..
Well... it sounds like Colorado Springs may be the best option, just based off what you said about it having the most mild winters. Unless the hail is even harder to drive in than the snow. I have read horror stories on this forum about golf ball size hail ruining peoples cars there. Can I get around? Or would I have to hide out?? Thats the question. I need to get to work, the gym, and hopefully be able to enjoy going outside.
Can you also tell me about the mosquitoes? I was told I wont be able to go anywhere thats green oe has a body of water without being attacked. So this sounds like my outdoor recreation would be ruined. Is one of this places less likely to be infested??
Since you said all 3 places are decently safe with rents around what Im hoping to spend... which will have employment? That is HUGE. Because minimum wage is $10/hr in CA jobs are so hard to get. Each job I have applied for on Indeed or Linked In has 300 other applicants. And Im sure no one ever looks through that many resumes. So you almost never get a call back. Even the crappy minimum wage retail jobs are hard to get because of the high minimum wage. I have a good resume with lots of experience, and its been hard even for me. Im hoping to find a basic office job during the week and maybe work weekends at the mall or some retail to catch up on bills. Which place would have those jobs for me??
The hail storms last only a little bit and only impact driving when the hail is falling. It is a several times a decade event with the big hail storms. but this year they had a really bad hail storm. It lasted only a few minutes though but the hail caused lots of damage.
The typical $12-$18 office jobs or customer service jobs would likely to be similar in all three to be honest. Colorado Springs is a smaller metropolitan area so it might take a little longer or more research but I would think with that much experience it would likely be easier for you to land a job quickly.
I doubt most retail employers pay minimum wage in Denver or even Colorado Springs. With Denver the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country. I think $10/hr for retail is the going rate in Denver also.
I have noticed the customer service levels have really gone down in the Denver area also because I think many retailers are dealing with a lack of employees. There have been many articles on the labor shortage which employers don't have enough employees especially in retail.
Lone Tree has Park Meadows which is about 5 miles south on the Interstate from Centennial. There is a huge amount of retail all over the area though between Centennial, Greenwood Village and even Centennial itself.
Colorado Springs has three large malls in the Northern side of the city with Academy and Powers being nearly exclusively retail. Lots of retail jobs there also.
The mosquito's exist in all three but there seems to be far less then most places. I would say Centennial would likely have the least. Colorado Springs it won't be in issue but alot of the parks have creeks and standing water from the amount of summer rainfall.
Sandy has few mosquitos, but certain suburbs like Bontiful and Woods Cross are havens for mosquitos. I couldn't even be out for more then a minute in Woods Cross with the mosquitos because of the lake being right next to it.
Im really appreciating all the feedback. Thats great news about jobs. I looked it up and CO minimum wage is 8.31 while utah is 7.25. I personally dont aim minimum wage jobs, since I have years of management experience, but I will do what I gotta do. If I have to work minimum wage until I find something better, so be it. As previously mentioned our minimum wage in CA was raised to $10, which resulted in 2 things- retail companies raising their prices on everything. A $6 smoothie is now $9... so I can no long longer afford them. And jobs are being extremely picky, getting hundreds of applicants for just one position. Ive wasted my time and gas going to so many interviews. And when I get there the manager says something like "Im just interviewing as many people as possible. If we want you, we'll let you know". And the temp agencies have told me flat out, sorry we have no clerical jobs. In Irvine (Orange County) there are jobs to be had.. but then every penny goes to you rent, which is about $1800+ for a one bedroom. So.... if any of these areas pay $10 just for basic retail or hire people and not just waste their time, it will be a great improvement.
I dont know where bontiful or woods cross is.. but I do want to avoid any bug infested areas. The great thing about CA is I spend a great deal of time enjoying our lakes with nothing but a butterfly and some ducks. I would be a very unhappy camper being bitten. I dont really understand why our lakes dont have any bug problems but Co or Ut would??? Hmmm So should I avoid all lakes? I notice some apartment have lakes.. should I avoid those?
Yes the Park Meadows mall is the one I was thinking of. It was love at first sight. Reminds me of our fancy CA malls (that I cant afford to shop in lol). But looks lovely and lots of jobs (hopefully). I have tattoos. Is that an issue in CO? With getting a job? I would assume anywhere weed is legal would be more laid back in general. What are the malls like in Colorado springs? Any as nice as park meadows? I was looking at Parker... which was not far from lone tree. Any thoughts on Parker? Bugs, jobs, snow?
Do you think I need snow tires before I move? How hard is it driving in the snow?? I have a sadan... not a big jeep or suv. Will that work okay for the snow? Looks like it snows 9 months a year on weather charts ��
Colorado recently passed a ballot measure pushing minimum wage from $8.31 to $12 by 2020. The exact impact this may have on smaller retailers is still TBD. Certainly bigger box shops can absorb the increase more easily, but it could also lead to any variety of methods they will devise to deal with the increase as well.
By tattooed are we talking a few less obvious types, sleeves, or art extending up you neck? There are plenty of tattooed people here, but the more obvious and graphic you have, the tougher it may be to nail down service or public interface positions.
Bugs...CO tends to have less and smaller varieties, but they are present. They are rarely so bad as to inhibit activities, but simple adjustments to times outside and topical applications of deterents can go a long way towards avoiding them.
Snow tires are a good thing to have on a sedan. You do not need 4wd to live in CO, and careful driving with those snow tires can get you around nearly everywhere, excepting those rare snow storms where it is so deep ground clearance becomes an issue. Also, I'd clarify that while we have the possibility of snow 9 months out of the year, it is not like it starts snowing in October and it sits around until April. Along the Front Range, it will snow for a day or two, it will sit around for another 5-7 days, and then most of it will be gone. However, shady and northern exposure areas do tend to hold on to it longer, which means some residential areas have have slick spots that stick around for several weeks to a month. Only the high mountain area get steady snow all winter long.
Well here in CA minimum wage is supposed to be $20 by 2020. While that might sound like progress... its not. Because it makes the cost of all living go up. Gas, groceries, and rent. When I got my 1st apartment it was $1100. Now the same apartment is $1700. That would be okay if we all got raises every year, but most people dont. I was at the same job for 8 years and went from $13 to $15/hr. Obviously that doesnt make up for a $600 increase in rent! And as I said before, high minimum wages make employers make people jump through hoops to get hired. Its only good for workers who live off minimum wage. But even they will be affected by the inflation of everything else.
When I look at the city data weather charts for Denver vs. Colorado springs it shows the snow being about the same. Im not sure how accurate these charts actually are. But they show snow 9 months a year, with snow being 5 inches in fall and winter, and spiking up to 9-12 inches in spring. But it also shows lots of sunshine so... hopefully that snow melts off and Im not digging my car out before work most mornings. I hate being hot so the idea of scarf and boot weather seems nice, but not if Im always crashing and swerving because of snow conditions on the road. I know you said colorado springs gets less snow, but thats not reflected in these charts.
One big plus about CO (or UT) is the short flight to visit CA (beaches). And also its a shorter/easier move than say the east coast. I had considered charelston sc and Charlotte nc for a while. But I was told that the mosquitoes and humidity were unbearable, and jobs were low paying, hard to come by, and traffic was awful. I never know if this is the truth or people just trying to deter outsiders from coming. I follow a lot of instagram accounts and they seem like beautiful places with people going outdoors, so without visiting every place its hard to know what is nonesense. I also love MA for its fall colors and 4 seasons. Its gets even more snow in spring (15 inches by weather charts) but it only snows 5 or 6 months tops, as opposed to most of the year like CO. Im not sure which is worse, lots of snow for a few momths, or smaller but consistant snow most of the year. Hmmmm. Either way Boston is not doable because home prices... just as expensive as CA for some reason.
Looking at snow averages, or any average for that matter, is always a tricky thing. They are, after all, averages taken from a block of years to determine a number and some years will always have more accumulation, highs, lows, and variables than others. There also are three ways to create averages nd most places are simply taking the mean average which is going to be very diluted from the modal average which will show you most common occurring range.
Perhaps, once you can narrow your search down to just a few places, you can begin watching some of the local newscasts to get a better feel for day to day weather patterns. This may be very relevant once you start looking at snow/rain accumulation, highs/lows for temps, and relative humidity or heat index scores.
Generally speaking, the more green the more humid, more buggy, more intense cold/hot feelings, and the more regular the rainfall or snowfall. The arid western will tend to be a bit more mellow in all these regards.
Another factor that may be hard to get defined in these forums but is a very real part of relocating is that a move to the Carolinas, Massachusettes or Indiana is culturally a radical departure compared to relocating to the mountain west. Colorado and Utah tend to attract a lot of people. This creates more transient population base which will tend to be very outgoing and accepting of strangers since most of them are in the same situation. By contrast, the three former states have deeply embedded social norms and cultures and relationships that have developed over lifetimes and generations that can make it very difficult to break into without have some thread of family or ways of introducing you into social scenes. The time I spent in MA were very revealing to me in this regard. If I was introduced to people through my relationships I had from work, people were very friendly, but as a stranger out travelling around by myself, the reception was much cooler, sometimes bordering on rude.
Homelessness seem to be prolific throughout our nation. I'm not sure you are going to completely avoid this anywhere you go. IMO, I would think CA would have some of the worst issues with this given the particularly mild climate, but I've never spent any significant time in CA this last decade when homelessness seems to have really gotten worse everywhere.
Hmmmm I was not aware of social unacceptance in some of these states. Its sad to hear. MA seems like such a beautiful place, obviously a bit more pretty (I can assume I might not fit in with all my tattoos- which can be pretty normal in CA). But I just love the MA style. So classic. But yes not laid back like CA at all... its scarves and boots instead of booty shorts and flip flops. I actually prefer the classier east coast look, even tho I love my flip flops. I lived in WA and there is something I experienced called the seattle freeze. In the 8 months I lived there I made only one "friend". A guy who happened to work out the same unusual late night hours as me at the gym. We went on one date after several chats in which he asked me to pay for myself, hence no second date. I was happy to leave the area, despite the beaitiful fall colors.
I do check the local weather everyday on all the places Im considering. MA is just a pipe dream because I cant afford to buy an $800K house anyway. But I check the weather daily on CO and IN. It will be 5 degrees in CO spings this week and 9 degrees in the denver area. These are predicted lows. Its colder than what the "averages" show. So it can be confusing reading that chart data like you mentioned. CO would be a big winner for me if I knew for a fact I could handle the low temps and high amounts of snow. WA was the coldest place I lived and it was 17 degrees in winter with a little snow. I froze... but maybe having a warmer wardrobe and lets say a jeep or snow tires would make the difference.
Carmel In seems like a lovely place with apartments in my budget. But its a fancy town for that state and I might be snubbed when making friends or applying for jobs. My mom says she loved how friendly everyone was to her when she flew there and was doing some work on the home she will be moving into next year. However... this was a very small town. I think the nearest city was anderson, which she said was also a small city. So maybe the small town folks are much different. If it were not for my mom moving to IN and trying to convince me to move close, IN would not even be on my radar. Ive always been interested in CO and I almost moved to Sandy UT 10 years ago.
Social norms do vary from region to region. I mention my experience in MA because it was a bit of a surprise to me having grown up in CO where the acceptance of strangers was a norm. To spend time in a place where people would not speak with you beyond basic acknowledgement was a big change to me. I even had one person tell me if I didn't know how to get someplace, I probably didn't need to be there.
If your mother is moving to Carmel IN, it may give you the inroads you need to meet people, at least in the smaller community where she will be living. Larger areas, I couldn't begin to guess at. You will be right outside of Indianapolis and within a few hours of Columbus and Cincinnati OH, Chicago IL, and Louisville Ky, so there may be plenty of things to do in the area. Population density there is more like what you are familiar with in the greater LA area than what is found in CO and UT.
Rocky Mtn weather is quite variable. Yes, we have some single digit lows overnight this week. We also had 60s during Thanksgiving. Unlike IN, where winter is winter for a good solid three months and temps average 28*, we can get very comfortable temps throughout winter. We actually just set a record for latest snowfall of record. We have not had measurable snowfall (.1" or more at the airport) yet this season. But we could get 14" or more in a single storm in March. Indiana will give you a predictable four seasons. Colorado and Utah not so much.
It is easy to dress against the cold. Layering is easy and gives great flexibility to dealing with rapidly changing weather. In Cos we also may only have 3-5 snowy days any given month. So while we may have a greater range of months we can get snow in, like I've often said, it doesn't stick around for long in the cities on the Front Range corridor. The mountains, that is another story entirely. Snow is possibly in July and August above 10,000 feet.
Snow tires are always a good suggestion for CO and may very well be recommended for IN. 4wd, IMO, only if you plan on spending significant time in the high country or off road. I've driven for years in CO with 2wd vehicles and good tires.
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