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People, I think tend to give, particularly rustbelt, legacy cities more credit than they deserve when it comes to urbanity.
An example I have is if you look at the inner core densities of Austin and Cleveland, they are actually pretty similar. (in 2010, Austin has grown 20% since then). Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com
But the perceptions are kind of opposite, Austin is seen as a sprawl heavy city, while Cleveland is lauded for its urbanity and density.
Midwest cities like Cleveland, Detroit, Cincinnati or Kansas City are closer to Austin or Charlotte in core density than Providence or Baltimore.
Now some, like Pittsburgh and Chicago (particularly the latter) have sizable regions of 20k ppsm or so and are much more dense in the core than their sunbelt counterparts.
Some legacy cities more than others seem to get a ridiculous pass as being greater than they actually are...
I think Detroit is an example of a legacy city that gets derided far more than it should. For as hard as it fell, it's still a Top 15 city, and exceeds or is equal to cities in the Top 13-20 range in most categories. It's density is now below 5000 I believe, but Detroit is a city's city and deserves far more respect than it receives....
St. Louis is an example of a city that gets due respect, however, is perilously in danger of falling behind it's "new" peer cities in Charlotte and Portland, and maybe others. So for St. Louis especially, it has a very strong urban fabric but in all other measures of city comparison, Charlotte and Portland have largely caught up to it...
Cleveland and Buffalo, twin cities of different size if there ever were, get WAAAYYY too much credit on here for what they actually are...
A lot of rust bell cities have density of built form, but lack population density. You can pack a pot of people into suburban-style apartment complexes without creating any real urbanity.
Agreed that density doesn't automatically mean urbanity. But also, yes a lot of older cities are far less urban than they were, and than their reputations.
But the perceptions are kind of opposite, Austin is seen as a sprawl heavy city, while Cleveland is lauded for its urbanity and density.
Midwest cities like Cleveland, Detroit, Cincinnati or Kansas City are closer to Austin or Charlotte in core density than Providence or Baltimore.
I'm originally from Cleveland, have fond memories of being a kid there and love the place. I'm proud of its comeback, and proud to be from there.
That being said, it gets more than its fair share of passes. Yes Downtown, Ohio City, University Circle and other nabes have made nice comebacks. But the City is basically a hollowed-out shell of its former self in many ways, and sprawls just as badly as some of its larger Southern cousins. And they are still building (some) on the outer fringes, even as the Metro has stagnant growth.
Yes. I especially don't understand why they get a pass for arguably being more sprawling as well. For example, most Western cities at least have some type of order to their sprawl, but cities like Cleveland, St. Louis, Pittsburgh etc just have suburbs going every which way. But they get a pass because the core is nice/historically urban...
Well they may be overrated on this website full of urbanity junkies, but in general they're not rated highly by the general population, due to continual negative perception and population stagnation/decline. I doubt the cities in Texas and Arizona give much of a crap what CD folks think about them as they continue to experience double-digit growth by the decade.
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