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I think most people outside of NC mean the triangle when referencing Raleigh. I sure do.. also the liberal thing is probably due to the very educated populace and their stronger then average folks connections to others like them in other major cities. Raleigh seems to have a higher profile then Charlotte in alot of circles and it's the "circles" that tend to generate the "cool" factor.
Charlotte definitely seems like the more liberal city. Raleigh always felt very conservative. They’re very image conscious about being a safe place to raise a family, best Elementary schools, polite politics. The 2nd largest city in metro Raleigh (Durham is a 2nd metro) is billed as the largest town or something (Cary. AKA “Contained Area of relocated Yankees)
Charlotte meanwhile gets knocked for having more violence. It’s more diverse and has inner city challenges like lots of large cities. It’s the literal “radical liberal” boogeyman of NC & regularly clashes with NC legislators. Charlotte’s city council is much more diverse, Raleigh typically nice white folk.
There’s really nothing liberal or even cool about Raleigh lol (but I think that’s true about Charlotte and Atlanta too) Other than it has some college towns nearby and that people are gentrifying Durham (which historically was a scary black city but now it’s hip)
The metro area is definitely more “liberal” (still conservative to me) but Charlotte metro is like. Trump tea-party freedom caucus as soon as you leave the principal county. Charlotte and the state legislators have clashed so many times since 2008. Charlotte’s the city doing all the heavy lifting fighting the gerrymandered crazies in Raleigh.
I think people can be very liberal but still conservative. Raleigh is just such a perfect area of perfect suburbs with the largest youth league soccer club in the entire US.
Charlotte is a city where the people have never met a bond referendum they haven’t liked. Put any mass transit referendum on the ballot, It would pass. The state even went ballistic when Charlotte funded a streetcar, tried to unsuccessfully take over the airport to prevent a planned (moving forward) light rail out there (CLT got a restraining order against the state).
The Mecklenburg delegation is so disdained in NC also. Mecklenburg is Charlotte’s county. It’s called the “Great State of Mecklenburg” by many legislators because there’s such a gulf between NC and Mecklenburg county. Mecklenburg even has hostile feelings towards its neighbors. The surrounding counties are always joked about.
But I was born in Charlotte so, my opinion is skewed relevant to this title because I know NC.
I will say in my circles (real estate, banking, financing) CLT gets mentioned often. A person from Fitch came to give a workshop on CMBS and he mentioned NYC being the place where all the banks are headquartered and he mentioned “and well. Those weird guys who like Charlotte.” — I have to work with bankers for Wells and BofA near daily and some other firms located there.
Anyway. I think it’s great Raleigh has a reputation of being hip and cool or whatever. The truth is. It’s like, the most stereotypical perfect cookie cutter utopia suburb ever. lol. Charlotte’s a nice surprise. People are generally surprised at how big and cosmopolitan it is (relative to perception) Definitely in the Atlanta/Dallas mold vibe. It’s very much a sunbelt city, southern, new south.
It’s much, much more flattering to be compared to Atlanta than anything north of VA IMO. Not a slam, I just think the sunbelt cities are great.
(Asheville, Chapel Hill, Carborro and Durham are the cities that North Carolinians view as being the “liberal” cities/areas).
(Liberal being white educated people who are cool and hip and eat vegan and shop at Whole Foods only)
Charlotte definitely seems like the more liberal city. Raleigh always felt very conservative. They’re very image conscious about being a safe place to raise a family, best Elementary schools, polite politics. The 2nd largest city in metro Raleigh (Durham is a 2nd metro) is billed as the largest town or something (Cary. AKA “Contained Area of relocated Yankees)
Charlotte meanwhile gets knocked for having more violence. It’s more diverse and has inner city challenges like lots of large cities. It’s the literal “radical liberal” boogeyman of NC & regularly clashes with NC legislators. Charlotte’s city council is much more diverse, Raleigh typically nice white folk.
There’s really nothing liberal or even cool about Raleigh lol (but I think that’s true about Charlotte and Atlanta too) Other than it has some college towns nearby and that people are gentrifying Durham (which historically wasn’t a scary black city but now it’s hip)
The metro area is definitely more “liberal” (still conservative to me) but Charlotte metro is like. Trump tea-party freedom caucus as soon as you leave the principal county. Charlotte and the state legislators have clashed so many times since 2008. Charlotte’s the city doing all the heavy lifting fighting the gerrymandered crazies in Raleigh.
I think people can be very liberal but still conservative. Raleigh is just such a perfect area of perfect suburbs with the largest youth league soccer club in the entire US.
Charlotte is a city where the people have never met a bond referendum they haven’t liked. Put any mass transit referendum on the ballot, It would pass. The state even went ballistic when Charlotte funded a streetcar, tried to unsuccessfully take over the airport to prevent a planned (moving forward) light rail out there (CLT got a restraining order against the state).
The Mecklenburg delegation is so disdained in NC also. Mecklenburg is Charlotte’s county. It’s called the “Great State of Mecklenburg” by many legislators because there’s such a gulf between NC and Mecklenburg county. Mecklenburg even has hostile feelings towards its neighbors. The surrounding counties are always joked about.
But I was born in Charlotte so, my opinion is skewed relevant to this title because I know NC.
I will say in my circles (real estate, banking, financing) CLT gets mentioned often. A person from Fitch came to give a workshop on CMBS and he mentioned NYC being the place where all the banks are headquartered and he mentioned “and well. Those weird guys who like Charlotte.” — I have to work with bankers for Wells and BofA near daily and some other firms located there.
Anyway. I think it’s great Raleigh has a reputation of being hip and cool or whatever. The truth is. It’s like, the most stereotypical perfect cookie cutter utopia suburb ever. lol. Charlotte’s a nice surprise. People are generally surprised at how big and cosmopolitan it is. Definitely in the Atlanta/Dallas mold. It’s very much a sunbelt city, southern, new south.
It’s much, much more flattering to be compared to Atlanta than anything north of VA IMO. Not a slam, I just think the sunbelt cities are great.
(Asheville, Chapel Hill, Carborro and Durham are the cities that North Carolinians view as being the “liberal” cities/areas).
(Liberal being white educated people who are cool and hip and ear vegan)
Again, most referencing Raleigh are including Durham and Chapel Hill... but to your point, it's nice to see 2 strong metros counter balancing one another in NC. Here in VA it's usually Nova or bust.
I think most people outside of NC mean the triangle when referencing Raleigh. I sure do.. also the liberal thing is probably due to the very educated populace and their stronger then average folks connections to others like them in other major cities. Raleigh seems to have a higher profile then Charlotte in alot of circles and it's the "circles" that tend to generate the "cool" factor.
The idea Raleigh is more liberal than Charlotte is already extremely questionable. Both cities are Liberial in general most major cities are.
I actually would give Raleigh the edge in education, but it's not like Charlotte doesn't have a large educated population. But Raleigh definitely does not have more connection to other major cities than Charlotte which is why Charlotte is a Gamma city and ranks higher in studies base on such.
What likely happening as mention People know Charlotte as a corporate city cause it been the Carolina star for last few decades but are less familiar with Raleigh cause it's new a major city, so generic stuff like saying it's liberal sticks to Raleigh more even tho you can say that to any major city. I also think people maybe over crediting NC going purple as "Raleigh" when actually it's a join vulture of Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro and the Black belt region.
Both Charlotte and Raleigh are growing more blue, turning NC more purple.
The idea Raleigh is more liberal than Charlotte is already extremely questionable. Both cities are Liberial in general most major cities are.
I actually would give Raleigh the edge in education, but it's not like Charlotte doesn't have a large educated population. But Raleigh definitely does not have more connection to other major cities than Charlotte which is why Charlotte is a Gamma city and ranks higher in studies base on such.
What likely happening as mention People know Charlotte as a corporate city cause it been the Carolina star for last few decades but are less familiar with Raleigh cause it's new a major city, so generic stuff like saying it's liberal sticks to Raleigh more even tho you can say that to any major city. I also think people maybe over crediting NC going purple as "Raleigh" when actually it's a join vulture of Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro and the Black belt region.
Both Charlotte and Raleigh are growing more blue, turning NC more purple
I see what your saying but I'm only speaking to perception.. it seems as though from the few others that have posted Raleigh is perceived as the more progressive region. You can deny it but it probably has to do with the fact that Charlotte has a stronger connection to what's considered as traditional "South" which people perceive more conservative as a region in general.
Again, most referencing Raleigh are including Durham and Chapel Hill... but to your point, it's nice to see 2 strong metros counter balancing one another in NC. Here in VA it's usually Nova or bust.
Ok. But Wake County is a large county of over 1 million people.... I know people can conflate the region but still. Wake is not cool or hip lol. But it’s your perception. It’s a perception of a lot of people. And I would wager your perception is the most common *positive* perception.
I just hear Raleigh and think of Wake County. Lol. I just don’t feel like say 15 years ago Raleigh & Durham were so closely associated. They were 2 different things that shared a suburban office park.
It’s like Greensboro and Winston-Salem. They still are thought of as their own separate entities, separate identities. They could be located on opposite ends of the state as far as people know. It’s literaly like the same distance between Raleigh and Durham as Winston & Greensboro. But I’ve Never, ever heard anyone like “when I’m talking about Greensboro, I obviously include Winston-Salem” ... Winston people would have a melt down.
Of course being a native, I know the Triangle and Triad are very connected, etc. but at the end of the day, the 4 major Triangle/Triad cities were always distinct and thought of as independent cities. Like Baltimore and Washington vs. Dallas and Fort Worth. I guess Durham is just sliding into a Fort Worth Or Saint Paul role vs. being a Baltimore or Ft. Lauderdale or Winston-Salem. They’re still not interconnected enough to even be considered a single metro area.
Ok. But Wake County is a large county of over 1 million people.... I know people can conflate the region but still. Wake is not cool or hip lol. But it’s your perception. It’s a perception of a lot of people. And I would wager your perception is the most common *positive* perception.
I just hear Raleigh and think of Wake County. Lol. I just don’t feel like say 15 years ago Raleigh & Durham were so closely associated. They were 2 different things that shared a suburban office park.
It’s like Greensboro and Winston-Salem. They still are thought of as their own separate entities, separate identities. They could be located on opposite ends of the state as far as people know. It’s literaly like the same distance between Raleigh and Durham as Winston & Greensboro. But I’ve Never, ever heard anyone like “when I’m talking about Greensboro, I obviously include Winston-Salem” ... Winston people would have a melt down.
Of course being a native, I know the Triangle and Triad are very connected, etc. but at the end of the day, the 4 major Triangle/Triad cities were always distinct and thought of as independent cities. Like Baltimore and Washington vs. Dallas and Fort Worth. I guess Durham is just sliding into a Fort Worth Or Saint Paul role vs. being a Baltimore or Ft. Lauderdale or Winston-Salem. They’re still not interconnected enough to even be considered a single metro area.
Totally get it.. I think Raleigh is just taking the helms of representing the entire Traingle. It's just not large or infamous enough for the general masses to know there are distinctions within to the level of a Ft. Worth or St. Paul, plus the fact that the region has the "Triangle" moniker with most assuming Raleigh to be the anker doesnt help.
Also I dont mean to make Raleigh sound like some hip haven... I'm just referring between the primary NC regions being discussed in relation to one another.
Totally get it.. I think Raleigh is just taking the helms of representing the entire Traingle. It's just not large or infamous enough for the general masses to know there are distinctions within to the level of a Ft. Worth or St. Paul, plus the fact that the region has the "Triangle" moniker with most assuming Raleigh to be the anker doesnt help.
Also I dont mean to make Raleigh sound like some hip haven... I'm just referring between the primary NC regions being discussed in relation to one another.
^ whatever the case, whether it is or isn’t. I think your perception is the most common. Which is the topic of this thread.
I think most people outside of NC mean the triangle when referencing Raleigh. I sure do.. also the liberal thing is probably due to the very educated populace and their stronger then average folks connections to others like them in other major cities. Raleigh seems to have a higher profile then Charlotte in alot of circles and it's the "circles" that tend to generate the "cool" factor.
Have you also visited Durham and Chapel Hill, or have your visits been limited to Raleigh? I understand that a lot of folks mean the Triangle when they say Raleigh, but the two sides of the region have historically had different personalities and weren't even considered to be a single region until the establishment of RTP. I just don't want to shortchange Durham and Chapel Hill by not giving them the credit they deserve in helping shape the image and reputation of the region to a large degree. Raleigh is a great city in it's own right and I'm not shortchanging it at all, but it could be argued that it is probably more like Charlotte than Durham. It would be a big mistake to treat Durham/Chapel Hill as the "Baltimore" of the Triangle.
In terms of the "cool" factor, overall the Triangle doesn't really have that in the same vein as Austin, Portland, Denver, etc. (although moreso than Charlotte probably). It doesn't have the same cultural cachet as those cities nor does it provide a similar urban experience. As I mentioned before, Raleigh/Wake County especially is more popular with families with its low crime rate, good schools, and relatively low COL. That's a big reason why Raleigh hasn't experienced the downtown apartment/condo boom to the same extent as those cities but there's been absolutely no shortage of subdivisions and SFR developments. The growth on the Durham/Chapel Hill side has picked up noticeably in recent years but Durham's core is smaller (the city's first modern downtown residential highrise debuted a few months back) and Orange County instituted an urban growth boundary years ago which also limited growth on that side of the metro, so the Durham/Chapel Hill MSA isn't big enough to really have the profile of the big "cool" cities.
Have you also visited Durham and Chapel Hill, or have your visits been limited to Raleigh? I understand that a lot of folks mean the Triangle when they say Raleigh, but the two sides of the region have historically had different personalities and weren't even considered to be a single region until the establishment of RTP. I just don't want to shortchange Durham and Chapel Hill by not giving them the credit they deserve in helping shape the image and reputation of the region to a large degree. Raleigh is a great city in it's own right and I'm not shortchanging it at all, but it could be argued that it is probably more like Charlotte than Durham. It would be a big mistake to treat Durham/Chapel Hill as the "Baltimore" of the Triangle.
In terms of the "cool" factor, overall the Triangle doesn't really have that in the same vein as Austin, Portland, Denver, etc. (although moreso than Charlotte probably). It doesn't have the same cultural cachet as those cities nor does it provide a similar urban experience. As I mentioned before, Raleigh/Wake County especially is more popular with families with its low crime rate, good schools, and relatively low COL. That's a big reason why Raleigh hasn't experienced the downtown apartment/condo boom to the same extent as those cities but there's been absolutely no shortage of subdivisions and SFR developments. The growth on the Durham/Chapel Hill side has picked up noticeably in recent years but Durham's core is smaller (the city's first modern downtown residential highrise debuted a few months back) and Orange County instituted an urban growth boundary years ago which also limited growth on that side of the metro, so the Durham/Chapel Hill MSA isn't big enough to really have the profile of the big "cool" cities.
Yes... been to all areas of the triangle especially with my UNC friends competing with my Duke friends when showing me around. I dont mean to short change any of cities that make up the triangle.. I just seem to refer to all of them as Raleigh. And, yes Raleigh has nowhere the "cool" factor as places like Austin/Portland, I was just suggesting it in comparison to one another. Also, I'm no NC expert, just providing one outsiders perspective.
I see what your saying but I'm only speaking to perception.. it seems as though from the few others that have posted Raleigh is perceived as the more progressive region. You can deny it but it probably has to do with the fact that Charlotte has a stronger connection to what's considered as traditional "South" which people perceive more conservative as a region in general.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the connotation of "progressive" has been reduced to meaning how many degreed techbros live in your city.
Oh and I think Charlotte got its progressive card revoked when it didn't fall in line and decided to host the RNC in 2020. Oh well.
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