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Old 04-22-2019, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Louisville
5,293 posts, read 6,055,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Wow. Virginia Beach's "Downtown" looks like a smaller version of Reston Town Center in Reston, VA, and Reston is a fraction of the size. Virginia Beach has a TON of infill to do.
Virginia Beach is more of a sunbelt sprawl-burb than it is a core city really. Like all sunbelt cities with massive growth since the 60's there was no real defined core for it. To me it has more in common with one of the Dallas or Phoenician mega burbs that have a "downtown". IMO Norfolk should still be considered the urban core for Hampton Roads. The fact that they have promoted and developed the town center as they have, diverts energy from the actual core and has held the area back from it's full potential. You see this any place where the surrounding suburbs compete directly with the core city for investments(i.e. Phoenix, Detroit, ect). Instead of a unified strong core attracting residents to a region at large, you end up with a fractured region and mediocre core, and several little pseudo cores.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:24 PM
 
37,875 posts, read 41,904,687 times
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Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Like all sunbelt cities with massive growth since the 60's there was no real defined core for it.
I don't think that's true of all Sunbelt cities at all. When talking about core Sunbelt cities and even several fast-growing suburbs, most had an actual downtown area/CBD that was recognized as such, even if relatively small; VA Beach is quite different as it was a small beach resort town that consolidated with its county in the mid-20th century and didn't really have a traditional CBD.
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:10 PM
 
193 posts, read 204,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Wow. Virginia Beach's "Downtown" looks like a smaller version of Reston Town Center in Reston, VA, and Reston is a fraction of the size. Virginia Beach has a TON of infill to do.
The reason "downtown" Virginia Beach looks so small is because historically Virginia Beach was nothing more than a small seaside resort with a 1960 population of about 8,000. In 1963 Virginia Beach consolidated with adjacent Princess Anne County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City) and immediately became an "Independent City" of over 150,000 people. This was done to prevent the city of Norfolk from annexing some or all of Princess Anne County. Under Virginia law, an Independent City cannot annex land from another Independent City. Virginia Beach today is the largest "city" in the state with over 450,000 people.

Similarly, in 1963, the small city of South Norfolk (pop. 22,000) consolidated with surrounding Norfolk County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City and Portsmouth City) to become the new Independent city of Chesapeake. This was done again to prevent annexation of county land by Norfolk and Portsmouth. County residents did not want to become part of these old cities and assume the problems they (Norfolk and Portsmouth) were perceived to have. Today, Chesapeake is the second largest city in Virginia with about 250,000 people.

Virginia is the only state where all of its large cities are "Independent" of their surrounding counties. In past years, attempts by these cities to annex land from surrounding counties have led to some very ugly court battles resulting in very bad city/county relationships in some metropolitan areas. IMO that is a main reason why Richmond and Norfolk have failed keep pace with other southern cities (Charlotte, Nashville, Jacksonville, Louisville) that have consolidated city/county governments.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
9,679 posts, read 9,378,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTinPhilly View Post
The reason "downtown" Virginia Beach looks so small is because historically Virginia Beach was nothing more than a small seaside resort with a 1960 population of about 8,000. In 1963 Virginia Beach consolidated with adjacent Princess Anne County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City) and immediately became an "Independent City" of over 150,000 people. This was done to prevent the city of Norfolk from annexing some or all of Princess Anne County. Under Virginia law, an Independent City cannot annex land from another Independent City. Virginia Beach today is the largest "city" in the state with over 450,000 people.

Similarly, in 1963, the small city of South Norfolk (pop. 22,000) consolidated with surrounding Norfolk County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City and Portsmouth City) to become the new Independent city of Chesapeake. This was done again to prevent annexation of county land by Norfolk and Portsmouth. County residents did not want to become part of these old cities and assume the problems they (Norfolk and Portsmouth) were perceived to have. Today, Chesapeake is the second largest city in Virginia with about 250,000 people.

Virginia is the only state where all of its large cities are "Independent" of their surrounding counties. In past years, attempts by these cities to annex land from surrounding counties have led to some very ugly court battles resulting in very bad city/county relationships in some metropolitan areas. IMO that is a main reason why Richmond and Norfolk have failed keep pace with other southern cities (Charlotte, Nashville, Jacksonville, Louisville) that have consolidated city/county governments.
This is interesting and explains a lot.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
830 posts, read 1,017,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTinPhilly View Post
The reason "downtown" Virginia Beach looks so small is because historically Virginia Beach was nothing more than a small seaside resort with a 1960 population of about 8,000. In 1963 Virginia Beach consolidated with adjacent Princess Anne County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City) and immediately became an "Independent City" of over 150,000 people. This was done to prevent the city of Norfolk from annexing some or all of Princess Anne County. Under Virginia law, an Independent City cannot annex land from another Independent City. Virginia Beach today is the largest "city" in the state with over 450,000 people.

Similarly, in 1963, the small city of South Norfolk (pop. 22,000) consolidated with surrounding Norfolk County (a "bedroom" of Norfolk City and Portsmouth City) to become the new Independent city of Chesapeake. This was done again to prevent annexation of county land by Norfolk and Portsmouth. County residents did not want to become part of these old cities and assume the problems they (Norfolk and Portsmouth) were perceived to have. Today, Chesapeake is the second largest city in Virginia with about 250,000 people.

Virginia is the only state where all of its large cities are "Independent" of their surrounding counties. In past years, attempts by these cities to annex land from surrounding counties have led to some very ugly court battles resulting in very bad city/county relationships in some metropolitan areas. IMO that is a main reason why Richmond and Norfolk have failed keep pace with other southern cities (Charlotte, Nashville, Jacksonville, Louisville) that have consolidated city/county governments.
These explanations are spot on, but I do think they miss the racial overtones that animated those consolidations at the time. A lot has changed, but of course, those court battles resulted in the legislatively-imposed moratorium on any annexation currently in place now for decades.
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