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So you are full-throatedly pushing MSP using info from someone else. Maybe AsAbove can post some data breaking down the foreign black population and that may change my mind, but I just don't get the benefits of Diversity that you hinted to about Providence in MSP.
full throat for MPLS?.
Oh no no no im full throat against a knee jerk default to Atlanta a metro where black foreign-born people are less than 1 out of every 10 black people there. that means at least 80% are from the same cultural background and its a huge number.
MPLS is KNOWN for Somalians which makes it highly unique in the black cultural space, same as NYC known for West Indians.
Atlanta is known for Black Americans, a group that can be found everywhere all over the country. Put it this way Atlanta % of foreign-born black is unremarkable what's remarkable is the number of black people in general. The language you use with "come to grips"is indicative of the knee-jerk default to Atlanta which i find pretty limiting considering the numerical reality on the ground.
In the case of MPLS I don't think theres a "small" number of black there. If you're up over 250k (MPLS is well above that), that's a sizable community and that shouldn't banish from conversations regarding black populations. All in all its the extreme dominance of Black American people and culture in Atlanta that weakens it in a discussion around black ethnic diversity.
Now if we are talking lifestyle or political diversity I bet Atlanta pulls away from some places but that wasnt in the OPs question. Quite clear he was talking about ethnic diversity not accents, zydeco or lifestyle as south-west was beginning to get to.
Minneapolis has 1/3 of the US Somali population, but does that alone make it diverse? Since when does a large # of one group make a place diverse? Seems is the opposite of diverse
#1 for Somalians
#2 for Liberians
#3 for Ethiopians
#5 for Kenyans
#6 for Ugandans
#9 for Zimbabweans
#9 for Guyanese
All with 1/8th the black population of Metro Atlanta...
it appears more diverse than ATL per capita. Anywhere that it bests Atlanta in its at least 8x more of that groups as a % of the black community than Atlanta. Even if it loses you have to multiply whatever that number is by 8. That's how you have to measure the diversity of the black population. No running away from that.
These numbers are paltry in the grand scheme of an ATL that is dominated by ADOS/FBA.
#1 for Somalians
#2 for Liberians
#3 for Ethiopians
#5 for Kenyans
#6 for Ugandans
#9 for Zimbabweans
#9 for Guyanese
All with 1/8th the black population of Metro Atlanta...
The thing is- i dont know the numbers so its hard for me to say but at first glance, it appears more diverse than ATL per capita.
How does Atlanta, DFW and Houston compare? If we are including Guyanese we might as well include central America. Houston crushes on the black Honduran population and it did well in black peoplefrom Belize, it is also top 3 for Nigeria and in the top 10 for half a dozen other African counties. DFW and Atlanta are both high for Kenya and top 10 in a lot of African countries too
How does Atlanta, DFW and Houston compare? If we are including Guyanese we might as well include central America. Houston crushes on the black Honduran population and it did well in black peoplefrom Belize, it is also top 3 for Nigeria and in the top 10 for half a dozen other African counties. DFW and Atlanta are both high for Kenya and top 10 in a lot of African countries too
We should include anywhere there are black people yes.
Do that. Then divide their numbers over the entire massive black population. If it is higher as a share than MPLS then it wins, if not then it doesn't.
I do know why we're just rehashing the same talking point about DFW HOUS ATL- well actually I do...Brooklyn Jo said it for me, and I said it again. That is what i am against.
Places like Boston Providence Miami and NY only gain more and separate themselves more because they all have many many black Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. Boston also has a lot of Black Hondurans. Especially in the city itself, like a lot of em... a much higher share per capita than Houston.
There you go with the per capita again.
Take the total Foreign born population and use that to divide the number for each country in order to get a fair assessment of the diversity. That is a more apples to apples comparison. Using total black population is just a way of making places with small black populations look good.
I think Nigerian Nightmare said earlier in this thread that the African Americans that were born to Nigerian parents outnumber the Foreign born Nigerians, but you lump them all into the African American group like the families were here for generations. To eliminate all that it is more fair to look at the breakdown of foreign blacks instead of the total black population because that doesn't tell the whole story
I think it's hard for me to come to grasp with Minneapolis having a stronger diverse black population than Atlanta.
Sure the percentage of black foreigners is going to be small because the black population in Atlanta is HUGE while Minneapolis is small. Yes Minneapolis today is night and day from 20 years ago, but still you feel the diversity a lot more imo in Atlanta than in MSP. Atlanta has that African and Caribbean flavor you can feel. Minneapolis has a large portion of the blk population from African but does that make it feel more black than Atlanta? I don't feel it. Also, MSP doesn't in any way feel as diverse in the blk community as Houston. Houston has the African (various countries), Caribbean, and Latin American blacks.Not to mention, as previously stated in the last page, Houston has African Americans from all ares of the country and the Creole Blacks add another flavor to the mix. Zydeco for example is popular there and Houston has a hand in its development
I'd argue Minneapolis has one of the most diverse and largest African populations despite the overall lowish black population. Mpls gained more African immigrants from 2010 to 2020 than NYC and just slightly less foreign born blacks than Atlanta. And the African population isn't just East African (Somalia and Ethiopia), there's also a visible Kenyan, Liberian, and Sudanese population. Mpls' foreign black population is definitely more visible than ATL's. Minneapolis is still majority African American despite the large foreign born population.
Oh no no no im full throat against a knee jerk default to Atlanta a metro where black foreign-born people are less than 1 out of every 10 black people there. that means at least 80% are from the same cultural background and its a huge number.
MPLS is KNOWN for Somalians which makes it highly unique in the black cultural space, same as NYC known for West Indians.
Atlanta is known for Black Americans, a group that can be found everywhere all over the country. Put it this way Atlanta % of foreign-born black is unremarkable what's remarkable is the number of black people in general. The language you use with "come to grips"is indicative of the knee-jerk default to Atlanta which i find pretty limiting considering the numerical reality on the ground.
In the case of MPLS I don't think theres a "small" number of black there. If you're up over 250k (MPLS is well above that), that's a sizable community and that shouldn't banish from conversations regarding black populations. All in all its the extreme dominance of Black American people and culture in Atlanta that weakens it in a discussion around black ethnic diversity.
Now if we are talking lifestyle or political diversity I bet Atlanta pulls away from some places but that wasnt in the OPs question. Quite clear he was talking about ethnic diversity not accents, zydeco or lifestyle as south-west was beginning to get to.
On one hand you’re right in that Boston and Minneapolis both have diversity in their black populations. Where you’re wrong is you’re assumption that the black population is some boring monolith of African Americans. You’re even falsely downplaying the numbers here in ATL as less than 1 in 10 blacks on Atlanta being foreign-born when the actual number is 14%. That’s 14% of 2 million, or close to 300,000 foreign born blacks that live in Metro Atlanta. You’re also downplaying the number of blacks who grew up in immigrant households who have moved here. We may not have as high of a percentage, but we definitely have the critical mass of diversity among blacks that you say is lacking here.
Culturally Atlanta is widely known among Africans, Caribbean islanders, Afro Latinos and even black Europeans as a black Mecca. It’s heavily referenced in African pop culture with movies and music both being recorded here. The same can be said for Caribbean cultures as well. Boston on the other hand, not so much. Atlanta may not have the percentages but as far as different black cultures — African, Caribbean, etc, being present, celebrated and nurtured, Boston doesn’t hold a candle to Atlanta…and neither does Minneapolis for that matter.
Last edited by south-to-west; 07-08-2022 at 05:36 PM..
I'd argue Minneapolis has one of the most diverse and largest African populations despite the overall lowish black population. Mpls gained more African immigrants from 2010 to 2020 than NYC and just slightly less foreign born blacks than Atlanta. And the African population isn't just East African (Somalia and Ethiopia), there's also a visible Kenyan, Liberian, and Sudanese population. Mpls' foreign black population is definitely more visible than ATL's. Minneapolis is still majority African American despite the large foreign born population.
Thanks for the info. Even if I grant you that Minneapolis gained almost as many as Houston and Atlanta, would you grant me that Houston and Atlanta should definitely be in the picture seeing that apart from the similar African numbers, Atlanta has a large Jamaican population and Houston has the largest Jamaica population West of the Mississippi, it gained THE most Hondurans, many of who are black. Houston's West Indian population is 5 times that of Minneapolis and Atlanta's West Indian population is 20 times bigger than Minneapolis. If you are including Minneapolis in the discussion, then certainly Atlanta needs to be in the mix. Percentage of the overall population be damned. If you are looking for diversity of black folks why skip West Indians and Hondurans? The Hondurans I grew up with I never knew they spoke Spanish until they told me they were from Honduras. By that I mean they were no different than say someone from the west indies.
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