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How is my statement ridiculous? I think most people would agree that those three states are in the same region (i.e. Deep South). Georgia shares an entire western border with Alabama. And I never said North Carolina is not the South that would be ridiculous, it's in the Upper South. North Carolina shares a true border with three states, Virginia, South Carolina and Tennessee. I say the Triangle and Atlanta are definitely in the South but different regions of the South. And just being in the Piedmont region doesn't make them somewhat similar, the Piedmont extends from Alabama to New York which means it extends from the Deep South to the North East. And I won't get into a slavery discussion on this thread because it's off topic, but I never said slavery did not exist in NC, I just said it was more prevalent in other States. At the beginning of the Civil War, Georgia was the second largest slave state in the South while North Carolina was the seventh. That's all I will ever say on this subject again.
I don't know what would make NC's border with Georgia an untrue border.
Statwise, GA is designated as a Lower South state, I'll let someone else handle the other designations. I have no problem with NC (it's a well rounded state). I think the problem is that Mackro is using the region designation that he grew up with....during his era.
I don't know what would make NC's border with Georgia an untrue border.
Me either. We are both among the 13 original Colonies. The borders were decided on in Colonial times and have been the same ever since. Tennessee is irrelevant, as they didn't exist as an entity back then.
I must admit I have never in my life heard the term 'true border' used in this context, ever.
[quote=JMatl;58981932]Me either. We are both among the 13 original Colonies. The borders were decided on in Colonial times and have been the same ever since. Tennessee is irrelevant, as they didn't exist as an entity back then.
What I'm saying that is 99.9% of the people that drive from North Carolina to Georgia will need to go thru South Carolina to get there. The only part of North Carolina that borders Georgia is the sparsely populated mountainous far western tip of North Carolina that most North Carolinians know nothing about. Georgia borders North Carolina the same way Tennessee borders Virginia. When I say "true" border, I mean an extensive meaningful border.
And just being in the Piedmont region doesn't make them somewhat similar, the Piedmont extends from Alabama to New York which means it extends from the Deep South to the North East.
Statements like this are exactly why some folks find it hard to take some of your arguments seriously. Firstly, the entire context of this discussion is about the southern Piedmont and even when speaking generally, the regional designation "Piedmont" in the U.S. is understood as largely referring to the bulk of the region which lies in the South. I'm not even sure if the portion that runs through central MD, southeastern PA, and lower north Jersey even has a collective Piedmont identity since they are already associated with and mostly lie within the Bos-Wash corridor. Oh and the Piedmont only just barely extends into NY so you can be sure that practically nobody is talking about the Big Apple when referencing the region.
Also the term "Piedmont" has taken on a largely metropolitan connotation within the Southeast, with airlines, hospitals, and regular residential streets in the region's cities being named after the region. This is because with the exception of the Triangle due to Raleigh's location on the fall line that separates the Piedmont from the coastal plain, all of the Piedmont's larger metros are located entirely within the region. Once you get to Richmond, DC, Baltimore, and Philly--all fall line cities--their metros are split between the Piedmont (the half away going towards the mountains) and the coastal plain (the half between the cities themselves and the coast).
Given the history of the South and its cities, it absolutely makes perfect sense that Piedmont cities share commonalities. That's where a lot of industrial investment from the North, like textiles, landed after the Civil War and they were connected by rail networks criss-crossing their states. The Piedmont cities eventually supplanted the historic coastal port cities in the Southeast which were economically devastated after the Civil War. That's also why cities like New Orleans, Mobile, Savannah, Charleston, and Wilmington share similarities and have a bit of a kinship in the Southeast. And the fall line cities from Greenville, NC on through Fayetteville, Columbia, Augusta, Macon, Columbus, and Tuscaloosa constitute their own subregion; they have histories as "in between" cities that didn't really boom like the Piedmont cities after the war but they didn't languish either like the coastal cities. And these days, growth and investment is evident throughout much of the coastal South and has given cities like Charleston and Savannah their mojo back with the Piedmont still going strong, and the fall line cities have been more steady in their growth patterns with no real boom/bust cycles to speak of. Much of this is due to the economies of fall line cities and the stable fixtures that anchor them like higher ed, military installations, state government, etc. So yes, regional commonalities aren't some weird, unusual thing as you seem to think.
Focusing on the cites in the Triangle, do you believe it is justified to argue that Raleigh is more similar to Atlanta and Durham is more similar to Richmond? I know I included the entire Triangle for this thread, but do you all have opinions on the individual cities?
What I'm saying that is 99.9% of the people that drive from North Carolina to Georgia will need to go thru South Carolina to get there. The only part of North Carolina that borders Georgia is the sparsely populated mountainous far western tip of North Carolina that most North Carolinians know nothing about. Georgia borders North Carolina the same way Tennessee borders Virginia. When I say "true" border, I mean an extensive meaningful border.
I disagree. The Tri-Cities metro area (formerly a singular MSA, now broken up into two but considered one CSA of half a million people) straddles both TN and VA and is connected by I-81; as a matter of fact, the city of Bristol within that metro is actually one city split by the TN/VA state line. That's much more similar to the way TN also borders GA with the Chattanooga metro area covering both states and linked by I-75.
But otherwise, yeah the NC/GA border area doesn't have much of an urban connection and there is no interstate linking them.
Focusing on the cites in the Triangle, do you believe it is justified to argue that Raleigh is more similar to Atlanta and Durham is more similar to Richmond? I know I included the entire Triangle for this thread, but do you all have opinions on the individual cities?
I supposed one could make that sort of granular-level comparison, but Raleigh is kinda like the odd man out in this group as it was never an industrial hub like those other cities and that's the biggest difference IMO. Before RTP, it mostly functioned as a smallish retail/commercial hub for eastern NC which had smaller industrial tobacco/textile hubs like Rocky Mount and Greenville. Atlanta was founded as a rail hub and, like Durham, had a large textile industry in place.
I disagree. The Tri-Cities metro area (formerly a singular MSA, now broken up into two but considered one CSA of half a million people) straddles both TN and VA and is connected by I-81; as a matter of fact, the city of Bristol within that metro is actually one city split by the TN/VA state line. That's much more similar to the way TN also borders GA with the Chattanooga metro area covering both states and linked by I-75.
But otherwise, yeah the NC/GA border area doesn't have much of an urban connection and there is no interstate linking them.
You took one sentence and misread my whole argument. Let me explain one more time. I could care less which roads or highways connect NC to GA or VA to TN. On this message board I have never read where someone considers TN a neighboring state to VA, even though the southwest corner of VA connects to TN. But, I see many statements that NC and GA are neighboring states even though only the southwest corner of NC connects to GA. What's the difference? There is a whole state named SC that exist between 99% of NC and GA.
You took one sentence and misread my whole argument. Let me explain one more time. I could care less which roads or highways connect NC to GA or VA to TN. On this message board I have never read where someone considers TN a neighboring state to VA, even though the southwest corner of VA connects to TN. But, I see many statements that NC and GA are neighboring states even though only the southwest corner of NC connects to GA. What's the difference? There is a whole state named SC that exist between 95% of NC and GA.
And? It's a historic border, and it isn't going anywhere. Whether you care to admit it or not, there is a lot of interchange along the GA/NC border. Why are you so consumed with minimalizing it?
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