Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No way am I saying Cleveland is comparable to Chicago because Chicago is so much larger. Even in Cleveland's heyday when it's population reached 914K in 1950, it was still less that 1/3 of Chicago size-wise... Today it hovers between 1/8th and 1/10th... And in terms of things -- things to do, places to live and (especially) places to shop, Chicago dominates Cleveland (and most any other city not named New York) and that's what one would expect.
What I am saying, however, is that scaled to Cleveland's smaller size, there are aspects that echo Chicago on some (not all) levels. You can drive or walk (preferably) through parts of Ohio City (ie along Bridge or Franklin Aves or Fulton Rd) and Detroit-Shoreway, and not feel aspects of Lincoln Park. The few blocks of Market Square very much mirrors Chicago's Milwaukee Ave in/around Bucktown. Both Chicago and Cleveland, esp in these respective neighborhoods, are huge sports bar/micro-brew cities; Cleveland has gone micro-brew nuts in recent years... Also, Cleveland's Edgewater neighborhood (with its beach) pushed togehter with neighboring (suburban) Lakewood, with its mini-high rise Gold Coast district, seems a (much) smaller version of the North Shore.
And I'm speaking mostly on Cleveland's West Side, which is the flatter, more Midwestern feeling side of Cleveland, as opposed to the East Side, which often feels more like an Eastern or New England city, esp in the suburbs like Shaker, Cleveland Heights and into the Chagrin Valley. However, Cleveland's University Circle and Chicago's Hyde park areas -- as major university, medical, museum/cultural districts set in old, park-like formerly wealthy neighborhoods -- have significant parallels... At least, in my mind they do.
As for rail transit? Again, think scale and not direct 1-to-1 mirror images. The L obviously is much lareger and carries many times the riders as Cleveland's Rapid... But, the Rapid is the only older 'legacy' rail network in the Midwest outside Chicago, and the walk-ability of certain Cleveland neighborhoods, esp during the city's moderate rebirth, is also reflective of Chicago.
The Red Line resembles other post war lines more than SEPTA/MBTA/CTA routes. Those systems were largely built in the 1895-1915 timeframe. They either built over or tunneled under main streets like Market Street in Philly or State St in Chicago. While the Red Line was built in the 1950s And was built along a New York Central ROW. Which gave it a pretty big gap in service Downtown. Compared to Legacy systems that have sometimes stops every like 3 blocks in the central core service area.
The Red Line was the first modern not last classic system
Last edited by btownboss4; 01-16-2021 at 08:26 AM..
I'm surprised Detroit isn't getting more votes. Wasn't Cleveland closer to Detroit's size in the old industrial days? If you include Akron in Cleveland's metro (northeast Ohio), then it's comparable to greater Detroit. Not to mention both cities are technically "Midwestern," although Buffalo might as well be Midwestern, too.
I'm surprised Detroit isn't getting more votes. Wasn't Cleveland closer to Detroit's size in the old industrial days? If you include Akron in Cleveland's metro (northeast Ohio), then it's comparable to greater Detroit. Not to mention both cities are technically "Midwestern," although Buffalo might as well be Midwestern, too.
Personally, I've never felt Detroit and Cleveland were super similar.
I'm surprised Detroit isn't getting more votes. Wasn't Cleveland closer to Detroit's size in the old industrial days? If you include Akron in Cleveland's metro (northeast Ohio), then it's comparable to greater Detroit. Not to mention both cities are technically "Midwestern," although Buffalo might as well be Midwestern, too.
I think the poll is appropriate. At one point Cleveland was closer to Detroit, though even at their peaks Detroit had more than double the population of Cleveland.
As for including Akron to make it similar to greater Detroit I disagree with that. Even if you include Clevelands CSA it still has 100,000 less residents than Detroit's urbanized area. They are just in different echelons. Not to mention Detroit's metro area is the only one of the three that has been more steady in terms of population decline. Where Buffalo and Cleveland metros have been in a consistent decline.
There's not a great answer here because Cleveland is between them both. The question of the OP is about modern day times and Cleveland IMO is closer to Buffalo than Detroit by quite a bit at this point.
One important point is that Cleveland has the world renown Cleveland Clinic (I have been a patient there), which has the best heart center in the world, period. From their website:
As the largest employer in Northeast Ohio and the second largest in Ohio, Cleveland Clinic has made significant contributions to the state and local economies, totaling $17.8 billion in 2016. The activities of Cleveland Clinic also supported more than 119,000 Ohio jobs, representing more than $7.5 billion in total earnings.
There is nothing like that in Buffalo. Cleveland's waterfront is infinitely nicer and all the jobs bring lots of millennials to the city. I spent some time there and the difference between there and Buffalo is enormous. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, ProSports teams with newer stadiums vs the antiquated Buffalo facilities. A MLB and NBA team. There is nothing like the Fairmount Boulevard District in Buffalo. Nothing like Beachwood or Chagrin Falls in Buffalo.
Wikipedia:
The technology industry is prominent in Greater Cleveland, specifically health related technology. According to Forbes, Cleveland could be the next tech hub. 180 tech companies have started in the local area. Cleveland's economy is often said to be transitioning from a manufacturing based economy to a health-tech based economy.
Cleveland has in addition to the Cleveland Clinic: Progressive Insurance, Sherwin Williams, Parker Hannifin and Keycorp as major employers.
Buffalo was at its peak over 100 years ago when it was a major banking, shipping, railroad hub, manufacturing and grain miller.
The Red Line resembles other post war lines more than SEPTA/MBTA/CTA routes. Those systems were largely built in the 1895-1915 timeframe. They either built over or tunneled under main streets like Market Street in Philly or State St in Chicago. While the Red Line was built in the 1950s And was built along a New York Central ROW. Which gave it a pretty big gap in service Downtown. Compared to Legacy systems that have sometimes stops every like 3 blocks in the central core service area.
The Red Line was the first modern not last classic system
What you're saying is true, but the foundation and superstructure for most of the Red Line -- bridges, overpasses, and even a few stations and many catenary supports -- were actually built in the late 1920s by Van Sweringen interests seeking to expand on its then-fledgling Shaker Heights Rapid line, which includes the 2.6-mile shared ROW of the 2 systems -- including tracks, power and storage/maintenance facilities at E. 55th -- from Tower City to just east of the E. 55th Street station and, most spectacularly, the 4-track,.7 high-level mile bridge (viaduct) over the Flats and Cuyahoga River, originally designed for the long-gone passenger trains to/from Union Station (Terminal Tower) and the planned East-West Rapid system... The recently opened (5-years ago) U. Circle-Little Italy station utilized an actual Van Sweringen vault core of a half-built station at that location. So really, while we view the Red Line as a separate 1955 system, it is in actuality the late-realized expansion of the earlier Shaker Rapid.
Given all this, in addition to the crumbling ROW portals in/out of Tower City's downtown subway station, the Red Line seems like an old-school system despite the fact it officially first opened in 1955.
Personally, I've never felt Detroit and Cleveland were super similar.
Neither have I, despite the 2 cities' being physically close to one another as well as their sharing of several Midwestern cultural aspects, such as speech (including the hard 'R') and expressions like "pop" and "tennis shoes."
I've been to Cleveland a few times and this is probably weird, but it gives me the vibe of a sunbelt city that stopped booming. Just with a denser core. And by stopped booming, I don't mean that it died. It's been holding its own, but most of the metro lives and works in the suburbs. I guess that Detroit is kind of the same, except it felt like a much bigger city to me.
I've been to Cleveland a few times and this is probably weird, but it gives me the vibe of a sunbelt city that stopped booming. Just with a denser core. And by stopped booming, I don't mean that it died. It's been holding its own, but most of the metro lives and works in the suburbs. I guess that Detroit is kind of the same, except it felt like a much bigger city to me.
No question; you're right... Cleveland was one of the hot American industrial powerhouses, even well into the 1960s, but signs of decline were sinking in. In the 1920s, it was likely on a path to becoming a 1.5M or so city but was hammered by several economic disasters. First, the Great Depression stalled the city's growth as a major financial; Cleveland banks took a pounding. Then, in the 1950s thru 70s, deindustrialization + white flight + serious corporate demonization and relocation... the latter of which was fueled by urban populists, such as late 1970s "Boy Mayor" Dennis Kucinich, during which time the city hit rock bottom, spiritually, although the heavy population losses and movement out of the City, and even county, continue to this day, although slowing considerably in the last decade.
I never viewed Buffalo as Great Lake city because unlike Cleveland and Milwaukee, Buffalo isn't actually situated on the lake.
Thinking of Detroit maybe? Even then the region of Detroit straddles Lake Erie and Huron, while the smaller Lake Saint Clair sits right there as well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
