In the shadow of the Alpha: Philadelphia vs. San Diego (crime, comparison)

[elchevere]

And Philly should be able to stand more on its own since it’s more established and has a considerably larger metro population.

That being said, San Diego has and continues to make strides as a city while competing with dueling interests—wanting/maintaining its own identity separate from LA and desiring more manageable growth but at an often breathtakingly slower pace (due to residents, city government, and/or Port/Coastal Commission resistance to sudden or drastic change) which often limits its ability to create that more pronounced identity. Coming around, just takes longer to accomplish than some other cities.

Originally Posted by sprez33

Having lived for a long time in both places, I'd say elchevere has it right. Philly was always pretty distinct from NYC. What you hear in SD often is "we're not going to become LA". I hope that's true and as long as Camp Pendelton is there SD will be separate from the LA urban monstrosity. The one area where SD is distinct is the proximity to TJ/Mexico.

As to the question of which is a better place to live, SD no contest.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by BlueRedTide

I think Philly has more of an Identity, And More of a Major City even If sometimes thought of in NY's Shadow. Philly is far more distinct and Stands Out More, Everybody Knows Philly. New York or No New York. And I'm willing to bet Everybody reading this can Name Multiple things ..or at least One thing about Philly, ( hey look Philly even has a cool nickname, I haven't said Philadelphia one time but everybody knows what I mean) ..let's see There's the history we learn in middle school about the liberty bell william penn etc, There's the Rocky Movie with him running up the steps, Philly Cheese steak, Philly Cream Cheese, Philly Eagles just won the Super bowl few years ago, And Plus, another thing, The Whole State of Pennsylvania and Really the Southern Half of New Jersey count on Philadelphia as being The "Big City" San Diego on the other hand (OTOH) gets lost in the Shuffle in California.. nothing really redeeming about it, I say that in a neutral way. There's nothing Really "San Diego" like there is "Philly Cheese steak" you can't Say San Diego cheese steak, you can't say San Diego anything, San Diego doesn't even have a Nick Name. It doesn't have a deep history like Philadelphia, Nothing Distinctive about it, It has Beaches and Warm weather just like L.A and Long Beach, and Santa Monica and Malibu and San Barbara etc and etc...I bet the average person can't name 2 things about San Diego beyond weather and beaches...But Since I'm Not a average person but a City Nerd like everybody on this forum I Can Name a few things about San Diego, The Average person Not from San Diego doesn't care/know, But Me Personally I Know about La Jolla Beach, Balboa Park, SeaWorld, The San Diego Zoo, Their Professional Sports team, Gas Lamp District, San Diegos Strong Naval Presence as home to the Pacific Fleet, I say That to Say This, This is No Knock on San Diego it is a wonderful city,
But Philly is more of a "City" and a more famous one at that. And therefore has a easier time escaping NY's shadow than vice versa

In the Shadow of the Alpha Philadelphia vs San Diego:
Winner Philadelphia

I think BlueRedTide captured the details of the question correctly here, but the reason for the boldfaced passage is that it reinforces what he says in an unusual way:

Philadelphia Brand cream cheese has never been produced here.

It was created in the 1870s by a farmer in upstate New York who produced a richer, creamer form of fresh cheese. (Neufchâtel, already in existence at the time and now marketed as a lower-fat alternative, is its cousin.)

The farmer formed a company to make and distribute the cheese throughout the East Coast. He chose to name the product for Philadelphia because at the time, the city had a reputation for fine food and cooking (high-quality foodstuffs at the time were often called "Philadelphia quality").

As for something San Diego has that's known beyond it, BlueRedTide left one thing out: the Hotel Coronado. Architecture and history buffs love this beachside Victorian hotel, and anytime it appears in a picture, you know immediately that you're looking at San Diego.

But otherwise, yeah, as both you and elchevere said, Philadelphia has a distinct identity that proximity to New York doesn't wipe out.

However: there is one phrase that the two cities together that gives many Philadelphians fits. What makes it worse is that it entered the language via a Philadelphia Weekly contributor who wrote a freelance piece for The New York Times about the growing numbers of New Yorkers pulling up stakes and moving to Philadelphia for a more affordable Big City Experience.

The phrase is "the sixth borough."

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Philadelphia. It's completely separate from New York in terms of local culture, history, sports, food, recognition, etc.

Also to OP, the thread title and poll question are a bit confusing. I think the poll question is a better title for the thread.

One of those things where you have to read the OP. I like my title.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

However: there is one phrase that the two cities together that gives many Philadelphians fits. What makes it worse is that it entered the language via a Philadelphia Weekly contributor who wrote a freelance piece for The New York Times about the growing numbers of New Yorkers pulling up stakes and moving to Philadelphia for a more affordable Big City Experience.

The phrase is "the sixth borough."

I've heard Philadelphia sold as an NYC alternative plenty of times, sometimes in a somewhat degrading manner like "hey, yeah, its a really underrated city, you should check it", as if it isn't one of the most established major legacy cities we have (Pittsburgh gets this too, sometimes when I tell people I'm from there I get "oh, I went there once, its actually a really cool city" like it needed their approval to finally be legit).


Alternatively, I"m just not seeing San Diego being sold as a place to go for people leaving Los Angeles for whatever reason. San Diego is also closer in population density to Los Angeles than Philadelphia is to New York City, if that is a factor being considered.

This is why I voted for San Diego.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

Alternatively, I"m just not seeing San Diego being sold as a place to go for people leaving Los Angeles for whatever reason. San Diego is also closer in population density to Los Angeles than Philadelphia is to New York City, if that is a factor being considered.

This is why I voted for San Diego.

Probably because it's not really any cheaper. It's more of a lateral move pricewise.

[Gaylord_Focker]

San Diego. Often mentioned as a favored alternative among Angelinos and other city residents I've come across. SD is often viewed as better than LA. Who says that about Philly vs NYC?

[elchevere]

Those who are moving from LA to SD often are doing so for less traffic, less congestion, slower pace and less smog but sacrifice the big city amenities in the process. I think the drop off in big city amenities (short of Broadway) is less dramatic from NYC to Philly than LA to SD; hence, why Philly stands more on its own.

As for “sixth borough” I take that as a badge of honor—especially from NY’ers who are not exactly known for showering praise on others liberally.

Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker

San Diego. Often mentioned as a favored alternative among Angelinos and other city residents I've come across. SD is often viewed as better than LA. Who says that about Philly vs NYC?

[biscuit_head]

Definitely Philadelphia. While it shares similarities to NYC, it definitely has an identity all its own and moves at a different pace and has a different vibe to it. It's also more provincial than NYC in a lot of ways, so its local culture is pretty homegrown and organic and hasn't really changed as much as NYC has (although NYC has a distinct culture all its own not diluted by transplants). Much more established history than San Diego (although SD is no slouch by West Coast standards), and has a ton of sports teams, distinctive cuisine from NYC, plus its own accent. It also has a much larger catchment area than San Diego does. Southeastern PA, South Jersey, and Northern Delaware cover far more ground than the urban area of San Diego, which is hemmed in by mountains, the ocean, the Mexican Border, and Camp Pendleton. There are parts of Riverside County that are part of San Diego's catchment and commute threshold (Temecula and Murrietta in particular), but the Los Angeles influence quickly starts to the north of that.

San Diego seems to really emphasize the "We're not LA!" angle to distinguish itself rather than emphasize its own culture because LA casts a huge shadow over the city, and a lot of decisions made in San Diego in terms of development and outlook are based on this. They don't want to advertise the city any more than they already have to due to the fears of unchecked growth and sprawl, and they already have a lot of good PR (weather, vibe, activities, recreation, etc.). Also, unlike Philadelphia, San Diego was a mid-sized city for much of its history until the 1970s, often overshadowed by LA, and SF in the national lexicon, and kind of did its own thing in the Southwestern corner of the country until it got "discovered." It hit the "big leagues" in the 1980s and boomed (SD County didn't even hit 2 Million people until 1984 or so), but there are still quite a few people who long to go back to the days when all those people weren't there. Phoenix, which was once the size of San Diego eclipsed it in size many years ago with its more aggressive pro-growth policies. Las Vegas was once a small town has grown to become a more popular and fast-growing destination and I wouldn't be surprised if the Las Vegas metro surpasses San Diego in size in the next few decades. Let's just say that most San Diegans don't want their city to be the next Vegas or Phoenix in terms of growth, much less Los Angeles.

Also, unlike Philly/NYC, a lot of people view San Diego as an extension of Greater Southern California although it very much has an identity all its own. There's a lot of exchange between SD and LA since a lot of Angelenos look at San Diego as a great weekend getaway from the hustle and bustle of LA while San Diegans go up to LA for their "big city" fix. I'd argue that there's far more exchange between SD and LA than Philly and NYC. Two of its Sports teams have high-tailed it for Los Angeles (could you imagine the Eagles high-tailing it for NYC? I couldn't), and in terms of cuisine, their biggest contributions like Fish Tacos and Carne Asada fries are influenced by Mexico, plus there's a bevy of great Southeast Asian and authentic Mexican food there but they're not as well known as other West Coast cuisines, or seen as general California cuisine. Philadelphia (which is mostly PA Dutch and Italian in influences) is more well known in general than San Diego in terms of its culinary offerings.

[18Montclair]

I wish there was a neither option. They are both very independent and have their own distinct sphere of influence even though they are literally next door to megacities.

[biscuit_head]

Originally Posted by elchevere

Those who are moving from LA to SD often are doing so for less traffic, less congestion and less smog but sacrifice the big city amenities in the process. I think the drop off in big city amenities (short of Broadway) is less dramatic from NYC to Philly than LA to SD; hence, why it stands more on its own.

As for “sixth borough” I take that as a badge of honor—especially from NY’ers who are not known for showering praise on others.

True. Metro Los Angeles/Greater Southern California is the second-largest metro area, San Diego is the 18th largest metro area. NYC is the largest, while Metro Philly is the 8th Largest (and the 6th largest city). The drop off from NYC to a top 10 metro area isn't as large as the drop off from LA to San Diego. San Diego pales in urban amenities compared to Philadelphia.