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We currently live abroad and are considering a move back to the United States (where we are both from). We have a young family, with three small kids--so public schools are a real consideration. We plan to live in an urban environment or an inner suburb, and are considering one of Philly, NYC, LA, or Chicago. I'm not sure if both of us will work, or just one of us. If one parent stays home then we'll make 70-80k depending on the city. If we both work it will be closer to 100k or so. Here are the sorts of things we are looking for:
- Good public transit (trains/subways, especially)
- A fairly decent Arab-speaking population (we are Maronites, actually, and want our kids to grow up around and learn Arabic).
- A truly cosmopolitan city with a wide diversity of people from all over the world, speaking all kinds of languages. We love markets, bookstores, etc. filled with foreign foods, languages, etc.
- We are pretty stereotypically trendy, yuppie-ish, and fairly progressive--NPR-listening, Democrat-voting, tote-bag-on-the-shoulder-on-the-way-to-TJs-and-the-library people. It's cliche, but it's what we like in a place.
- Access to nature is a big deal, or at least access to high-quality and large parks with lots of trailspace.
- I am pretty introverted, but somehow I still love to be around a lot of people. I actually like crowds, but without having to actually talk to a lot of people, if that makes sense. So density is a good thing.
- We are Catholics and all of the cities we are considering have large Catholic populations, but I'm prefer a city that, while not being trumpy and right wing, is still not allergic to church attendance.
For what it's worth, we have lived in Miami and absolutely hated living there. The people were small-minded, glitzy, and just not very pleasant. So we really want to avoid anything even remotely close to that experience. We lived in Denver, which was fine, but way too parochial, laid back, and casual. Kind of like an overgrown cowtown with a really silly pot culture that just makes the place seem really unserious. But the mountains (and the plains, actually) are wonderful.
I've never even been to Philly, but it sounds like a really fascinating place with a lot of soul and a pretty positive future. The urban environment is iconic, and there is a grittiness that is pretty alluring (although it can obviously get dangerous and depressing). It is also extremely affordable and close to a lot of interesting cities (and New York). I love that it has a real sense of itself. Philly is Philly and nothing can replicate that. On the other hand, Pennsylvania seems like it is becoming a lot more Republican (which is to say that Philly/Allegheny is slowly being engulfed by Pennsyltucky), and that is terrifying.
New York is my favorite city in the world. It's always been my dream to move there. There is a kind of magic about raising my kids there and exposing them to the entire world by exposing them to just one city. The problem is how expensive and difficult it is to actually live there. I am skeptical that it is possible to have a decent quality of life living on 75 (or even) 100 thousand a year. Part of the reason we are thinking of moving back to the US is that where we live is reall stressful. Life is just not easy. If everything is a hassle in New York, then the novelty and glamor of the place may wear thin. Also, living in some dumpy shoebox in Far Rockaway--if that's all we can afford--will make it hard to enjoy the New York that everything dreams about when they dream about New York.
Chicago is a wonderful American city. It has this incredible vibe that makes anyone feel at home. And it's a big city with some diversity, a lot of opportunity, and great culture at a low price. It's truly a great place. But it also has very serious negatives that might be hard to ignore (I lived outside of the area for a couple years, by the way). The crime and weather are just bad. They really are. And I find the place extremely insular unless you spend a lot of time in the risky south and west sides of town. It's like Chicago tries to pack literally all of the mostly white Midwestern frat boys from the Big 10 into a little box north of Division and east of Western and call it a city. That's not diversity. It is certainly not global. It's just annoying. The suburbs are a little better, but I'm not sure how much better. On the other hand, a price like you get in Chicago, you probably can't complain too much. The value you get out of the city is pretty solid. Nice people, too.
Finally, Los Angeles is a really beautiful place. The people are generally pretty easy-going, interesting, and welcoming. There is a huge Arabic-speaking community, although it is pretty evenly spread out. I love the mountains and palm trees. The weather is very good. It's a very diverse and progressive place, too. It's trendy, international, and has a really excellent vibe. I've spent a lot of time visiting the area and I have always enjoyed it. It really just opens itself to the future and that's a really beautifully American thing. On the other hand, it's obviously fairly spread out without the great urban density of New York. The public transit is also a lot weaker, and traffic a lot more horrible than the other cities. And the cost of living is probably the biggest negative. If I'm stuck living in Oak Park or Queens or something to save money in NYC or Chicago, that's fine. But if I'm forced to live in Long Beach or the Valley to afford living in LA then that won't work. I want the West LA lifestyle, but I obviously cannot afford it on our income.
The New York City area isn't really all that expensive. Manhattan is expensive, yes. The top tier suburbs, yes.
But theres a lot on the market in the 300-400k range in Nearby NJ, Westchester or North of NYC.
If you do really like NYC, you can definitely live in the suburbs nearby and make it work. Boston is by far my favorite city, and I made it work for a few years. It can be done.
Also, don't shoot down Boston and DC off your search. Or perhaps, even Detroit.
If you live in the inner ~85-90 sq miles of Los Angeles you can live on Public Transit but it is rather expensive.
If you are making closer to 100k that won’t matter. I think Chicago is the only answer that you’d be able to live a great life and take advantage of all the city has to offer in the 70k range.
Also keep in mind I think NYC is the only one with good public schools. I think LA is passable while Chicago and Philly are bad so a little more for housing could be worth it to save on school costs.
I think you can certainly find what you're looking for in all of these cities, but it will be easiest/most doable in Chicago or Philly, due to their much more common affordability. University City in Philly actually sounds perfect for you.
And since you mentioned Pennsylvania politics, it's complicated. Don't be fooled by the Trump era--yes, the state, like most others (even liberal New York), fell much harder for him compared to past GOP candidates (thankfully, obviously, 2020 was just enough of a swing back to the Dems). But even the 2016 results were not due to a fundamental ideological/political shift. It was much more about style versus substance of a "maverick" versus the "establishment" type of dynamic. It's still a fundamentally blue-leaning purple state. And living in the Philly area, you literally never have to interact with "deep red" rural parts of the state. In fact, most people don't.
I won’t speak to the other cities, but if you are interested in Chicago I would highly recommend taking a look into Lincoln Square. It’s the neighborhood of choice for younger families in their 30s, and it’s right in the center of all of the most diverse North Side neighborhoods. 80k puts you right at the median for household income in Lincoln Square so I would say it’s definitely doable. It’s also right on the Brown Line, which is a 35 minute ride to the Loop proper. Not the best commute but also not the worst.
Speaking of the neighborhoods around Lincoln Square. You have Albany Park to the west, which is considered the most diverse zip code in the city and has the center of the Arab community on Kedzie Ave; West Ridge to the north, with a big Indian/Pakistani population on Devon Ave and an ultra-Orthodox Jewish population; and Uptown to the east, which has the best Vietnamese and African restaurants in Chicago.
The reason why I recommend Lincoln Square over those neighborhoods is that they are primarily working class immigrant areas - not almond latte liberal (lol). Some of them also have crime problems.
Chicago's inner ring suburbs seem like they'd be a good focus.. Though I know you've lived in the area, I'd consider targeting Morton Grove, which is only a 25 minute ride to DT Chicago.. Truly a diverse population (54% of the population speak another language aside from English), median income of ~$90k, great K-8 schooling. It doesn't have a charming downtown area, but it does offer a ton of convenience in town and in surrounding areas like Skokie. And though Skokie is predominantly Jewish, there is a notable 1st/2nd generation Middle Eastern population. So that could be a great choice as well.
The only addition that I would add to this list is Boston.
It meets a lot of your desires. It's very diverse, large Catholic population, Democratic, public transportation, and all of the big city amenities.
For Chicago, I'm sure you already know, but since you mention dense, inner ring suburbs.....Evanston and Oak Park are very diverse, inner ring suburbs. You mention the Big 10 vibe you don't like about Chicago in the North Side; but if you are living in the suburbs, this won't be an issue. Plus, downtown Chicago is very diverse.
Given your low budget, NYC, LA, Boston (if you were to consider it), and even the more desirable parts of Chicago/Chicagoland suburbs would probably be a challenge for you.
Philly is a really nice choice and very affordable. It seems to have everything you need.
The question I have when people make threads that ask people for advice on where they should move (and list major cities from all over the country), is what is your career? How realistic is it that you could just choose one of these cities and be able to land a job. It might come down to which city you can get a job in, in your given career field. And given that you aren't local and most jobs in these major cities are super competitive (given that they are popular cities), it will likely be very hard to get a job in one of these cities.
The only addition that I would add to this list is Boston.
It meets a lot of your desires. It's very diverse, large Catholic population, Democratic, public transportation, and all of the big city amenities.
For Chicago, I'm sure you already know, but since you mention dense, inner ring suburbs.....Evanston and Oak Park are very diverse, inner ring suburbs. You mention the Big 10 vibe you don't like about Chicago in the North Side; but if you are living in the suburbs, this won't be an issue. Plus, downtown Chicago is very diverse.
Given your low budget, NYC, LA, Boston (if you were to consider it), and even the more desirable parts of Chicago/Chicagoland suburbs would probably be a challenge for you.
Philly is a really nice choice and very affordable. It seems to have everything you need.
The question I have when people make threads that ask people for advice on where they should move (and list major cities from all over the country), is what is your career? How realistic is it that you could just choose one of these cities and be able to land a job. It might come down to which city you can get a job in, in your given career field. And given that you aren't local and most jobs in these major cities are super competitive (given that they are popular cities), it will likely be very hard to get a job in one of these cities.
Unless this is more of a hypothetical question.
Thanks for the feedback.
I actually debated putting Boston on the list because we are actually considering it, too. One the reasons we are perhaps considering it a little less seriously is that it is so pricey and job opportunities are a little less solid there in our fields than in the other four cities (we have already had job offers in Chicago, Philly, and New York, for example).
You mentioned a desire to live among an Arab-speaking, preferably Maronite Catholic, population.
Frankly, the city that would best meet that criterion is Detroit. But I'm guessing that Detroit's other attributes put it beyond your consideration. (Since you haven't mentioned what fields you work in, I can't say which of these cities would work better or worse for you, but since you've already got job offers from three of the four cities you are considering, I guess that should answer my question.)
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