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I just don’t think the Triangle is lacking for stuff to do relative to its size.
Don't do this, this is objectively false...
Obviously there's the same stuff here as anywhere else. The issue here is both quantity and quality to go along with the infrastructure that spreads stuff out. Stuff like opera and symphony are cool but draw a niche crowd, thats not the top of most people's favorite things to see. NHL is here and is fairly popular locally, but is significantly more popular in most, if not all, other NHL cities and in general, by virtue of NHL being the least popular major league, is not anywhere near the draw any of the other leagues would have; and again, most people, even here, particularly if you aren't white and we know there are plenty of nonwhite people here, NHL is not riding anywhere near the top of most folks things to see....and even amongst white people every other sport is more popular, so while NHL does okay here, its not a must-see activity...
The diehard college basketball thing here is uniquely Triangle because of the tradition, and a minor annoyance to me because everyone expects everyone else to have a dog in the fight (though I casually root for State, they aren't must-see for me). Its definitely huge here, but in general college ball has been on a significant decline in pop culture relative to where it was 30 years ago, again the storied history here will always make it a big deal to locals but for many of us transplants, simply saying "well there's top tier NCAAB here" is insignificant as it is not a draw to moving here nor something we just have to see in person...
The park options have gotten more notable over the years, they just opened a new one in NE Rgh last week. Other places still have either more parks, parks that are better fleshed into the urban fabric of the city, or both. Ditto for downtown and nightlife, markedly better over the years but the downtowns are still small with scale of nightlife and the diversity of nightlife options that pale in comparison...
Shopping is really good. So are restaurants. These aren't things that can't be found elsewhere as Triangle is chain-heavy, abd the independent spots on both fronts aren't large enough or varied enough to have a major stamp on the area the way you get in some places......but Triangle does do those two areas really well, no doubt about it...
Museums are also good here. I enjoy museums so I enjoy the ones here, I've certainly seen worse, but I do museums everywhere I've lived. I dont know that I'd say they are the best I've seen nor assume they are on par with cities of similar size, because theres really only a handful of ones worth visiting more than once. But they arent bad...
There's things to do here. It isnt an equivalent experience to places of the same size, though, and a few cities below the 2-million threshold offer equal or more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy
I agree. There's plenty enough to do for the people that live in Raleigh and I don't think that they feel that they lack things to do.
This isn't entirely true. Most people here are from elsewhere, eith many of us being from larger cities, so there's enough people here with the frame of mind of what an area this size should have. The other part is a lot of those same people have actively added to the things to do here because they understand that...
You meet the lifelong Triangle native like Heel every once in awhile here who, though having possibly traveled around, has never lived anywhere else long enough to have a comparable frame of reference of why others would call the area boring or lacking in things to do, so they are entirely comfortable with what the region offers----->that's to your point about not missing what you don't have...
You also meet the lifelong Triangle native once in awhile who realizes the area isn't top tier things to do for its size. There's two million people here. There isn't anywhere else with this population with less entertainment options, and several places under this size that offer more...
Ultimately though, to Heel's intended point though he conflated it with the "tourist" comment, people here, even those of us who recognize it lacks in fun and entertainment relative to size, like living here because it is a comfortable place to live. There is enough things to do, and I'm on record several times as saying "boring" may be a slightly strong descriptive of the area, but I understand the sentiment. Its not bursting at the seams here with activity and it also isn't like there isn't anything here to enjoy. For most people here what is offered is a greater positive than what isn't because its such a comfortable place to live...
I think that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said about the Triangle. As I’ve said before, I’ve always used Charlotte as my frame of reference, but you’ve always chosen to ignore my detailed responses and yammered on about light rail and pro sports and nightlife, the three areas Charlotte is unquestionably better at. I would add a quick note on the college scene here in the Triangle. Beyond the fact that college sports is better attended both in raw numbers and percentage of the population than Charlotte’s pro sports, there is a unique value dimension with the in-game experience between the two. Wolfpack games are absolutely a better experience than a Hornets game.
Regardless I think we are all circling a similar drain with simply a different perspective. While the Triangle has plenty to do, no one would travel 5 hours to do what the Triangle offers because somewhere else is probably closer that offers a suitable substitute. Whether that means the Triangle punches below its weight is academic at that point. Atlanta and DC are better draws with a higher class and quantity of amenities, and that’s all she wrote.
I think that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said about the Triangle. As I’ve said before, I’ve always used Charlotte as my frame of reference, but you’ve always chosen to ignore my detailed responses and yammered on about light rail and pro sports and nightlife, the three areas Charlotte is unquestionably better at. I would add a quick note on the college scene here in the Triangle. Beyond the fact that college sports is better attended both in raw numbers and percentage of the population than Charlotte’s pro sports, there is a unique value dimension with the in-game experience between the two. Wolfpack games are absolutely a better experience than a Hornets game.
Regardless I think we are all circling a similar drain with simply a different perspective. While the Triangle has plenty to do, no one would travel 5 hours to do what the Triangle offers because somewhere else is probably closer that offers a suitable substitute. Whether that means the Triangle punches below its weight is academic at that point. Atlanta and DC are better draws with a higher class and quantity of amenities, and that’s all she wrote.
Well Its just not about having a pro team. Its all the amenities that come with it including other sporting events( NBA All-Star game and NCAA Championship game because of the arena and all of the celebrities and the influence that they have in the local culture. Because we have the Panthers we have Bank of America Stadium. Because of this amenity we were able to secure a MLS team, the ACC Football championship, bowl games, international soccer games and events plus the celebrities, parties, and other events that it brings. Just like having Quail Hollow yes its a regular stop on the pga tour but because of the golf course amenity, Charlotte gets to host events such as the PGA championship and Presidents Cup. These events bring international prestige and exposure because Charlotte simply has the facilities. Having a convention center our size has allowed Charlotte to host not only the DNC but RNC as well
Simply because we have the facilities. Along with this comes notoriety and the celebrities and activities that come with it. Carowinds is a top rated theme park is literally a 20 minute drive from my house along with the White water center( which is a training facility for the U.S. Olympic Team). Having these amenities in our back yard means that activities can done in a matter of hours versus spending a whole day because of driving. It is for this reason why alot of us feel Raleigh is lacking for a metro its size. Its a very nice place to live, however entertainment and amenity wise it lacks and I hope to see improve.
but you’ve always chosen to ignore my detailed responses and yammered on about light rail and pro sports and nightlife, the three areas Charlotte is unquestionably better at.
This isn't true because when Charlotte/Triangle comes up its you who says there's only these areas Clt is unquestionably better at, while I've had to point out that its misleading to say Clt is only better in those areas because Clt offers a greater experience in even more categories, including some of Triangle's strengths (like shopping and dining for instance, but the like is just more robust in Clt, period). Your opinion is that a thin line separates Triangle and Clt but most people don't share that opinion...
Its fine to use Clt as a frame of reference if you do so objectively...
Regardless, this thread isn't about Clt, DC, or Atlanta, or even why Phx has more going for it. The talking point about Triangle being boring or lacking amenities and entertainment for its size are, as I've explained before, despite 2.1 million people here and rapidly counting, the scale and depth of amenities here is not on the same level of any other place in the same population range. Thats why people say its lacking...
I'm not talking about traveling to do anything, I'm talking about what you have right in the city and metro region...
Raleigh's own Ashley Christensen won James Beard's coveted Award for Outstanding Chef in 2019. Charlotte food scene is barely noticed by national publications when it comes to cuisine. Objectively, the food scene in Charlotte is poor for a city of its size. It would not surprise me if Phoenix outclasses Charlotte in this department as well.
Charlotte posters will always bud in it these Raleigh/Durham comparisons. I'm from Los Angeles originally and it's always funny how Los Angeles always has a thing to prove against New York but typically New Yorkers couldn't give two cents about comparing itself to Los Angeles. Charlotte is kind of like that but punching down. It's kind of sad.
As far as museums, parks, schools, and theatre attendance, the Triangle more than carries it weight in discussions with Charlotte. I’ve attempted to clarify the dining situation with some objective idea of what you are leaning towards (Beard awards, diamond reviews) but have gotten back merely subjective from you (it’s bigger- though OpenTable even leaves that an open question).
At any rate, we can talk about Triangle’s inadequacies vis-a-vis Charlotte in one of our myriad other threads. As far as here, the Triangle is muggier and smaller. Phoenix is drier and bigger.
Shopping is really good. So are restaurants. These aren't things that can't be found elsewhere as Triangle is chain-heavy, abd the independent spots on both fronts aren't large enough or varied enough to have a major stamp on the area the way you get in some places......but Triangle does do those two areas really well, no doubt about it...
This seems dishonest. The Triangle punches above its weight in terms of good quality independent restaurants. I never visit chains and I'm quite content here. While Asheville is well-known outside NC for being a brewery mecca, Raleigh quietly and secretly has more. The metro does excellently in that regard though none of them are as popular outside the state as Sierra Nevada or New Belgium. The same could be said for the live music scene which is actually pretty good, but very low-key with few high profile artists springing from the region. However, the region is always included on tours from high profile international artists, often while Charlotte gets left off of some.
I would conversely say the shopping is below par for a city its size, though it depends what you're looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy
Having something 2-3 hours away is not the same as having it locally. Birmingham and Chattanooga are 2-3 hours from all that Atlanta offers, but it's not the same
That is absolutely true. I have changed my view about this over time though. In the past I felt it was a bigger mark against Raleigh that the region didn't have its own theme park, and was a 2-3 hour drive to the nearest ones in neighboring cities. That does mean it tends to be a once a year thing if you live here.
The flipside is that theme parks have grown so ludicrously expensive to visit over time that even if we had one here, I doubt I'd go more than once a year anyway. Much like cinema, theme parks are on the decline nationally as younger generations are less interested in them and their business model hasn't modernized to keep with the times. They tend to carry sub-par food and drinks that they monopolize at outrageous prices so it's a prison where you wait in long lines to ride the rides for a day.
Make no mistake, the rides have gotten better. I'd be delighted to have the Intimidator or Apollo's Chariot here instead of 3 hours away. It is still a negative that this region is missing its own theme park, but I think missing something that you'd go to once a year is a different category than missing something you'd go to once a month, for instance. Skiing is another example of this.
Raleigh's own Ashley Christensen won James Beard's coveted Award for Outstanding Chef in 2019. Charlotte food scene is barely noticed by national publications when it comes to cuisine. Objectively, the food scene in Charlotte is poor for a city of its size. It would not surprise me if Phoenix outclasses Charlotte in this department as well.
Charlotte posters will always bud in it these Raleigh/Durham comparisons. I'm from Los Angeles originally and it's always funny how Los Angeles always has a thing to prove against New York but typically New Yorkers couldn't give two cents about comparing itself to Los Angeles. Charlotte is kind of like that but punching down. It's kind of sad.
No Charlotteans don't do this at all. We aren't worried about Raleigh. Its In a different tier. Matter of fact those of who live in Charlotte give Raleigh respect. Actually it seems to be the other way around. It was somebody from Raleigh who actually brought up Charlotte. Nobody is punching down Raleigh however what we are doing is bringing in reality. Yes Raleigh does well in food however the QUANTITY AND DIVERSITY found in cities its same size or bigger are more abundant. Its not a knock on Raleigh at all. This pertains to ALL amenities.The same people are saying the same about Phoenix compared to other cities in its same tier. Don't take it so personal.
Let's not talk about Charlotte unless the OP is also interested in Charlotte. Otherwise it is irrelevant.
SiliconValleyLocal, are you thinking about Charlotte?
I'll take a stab at your list as far as Raleigh (can't say too much about Phoenix).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconValleyLocal
Some things I like/don't like about each
Phoenix
- Sunshine nearly all year round
- I like warmer climates
- Really good food options
- I like the style of the homes built there
- I don't like, nor do I think, I could handle the extreme heat
(100 Fahrenheit and below for a few weeks is Ok for me, but I've heard the heat in Phoenix can last months) It definitely can. Check https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...oenix/historic and scroll back to past weather. It would be too much for me, but you know what you like.
- Some areas seemed really unsafe
- Technology & Medical jobs don't seem to be what Phoenix is known for, economy seems a bit limited, etc.
- Real estate doesn't seem as stable
Raleigh
-Seemed like a safe place to live Yes, pretty much.
- Not as hot as Phoenix in terms of temperature Definitely not as hot. We have 4 seasons. Can be chilly to cold in winter. Hot and humid summers.
-Technology/Healthcare jobs seem abundant Yes, very good scene for healthcare, tech, biotech, pharma
- Good food options Yes there are some award-winning restaurants and chefs.
- I already own a home in California, so owning a place in the East Coast sounds like a good idea
- Close to DC/NYC It is fairly close to DC (4-5 hrs, depending on traffic which can be terrible around DC), not that close to NYC (9-11 hrs).
-Real estate seems more stable If by "stable" you mean booming, then yes!
- I don't like the lack of sunshine days I wouldn't characterize Raleigh as having a lack of sunshine, but it's not Phoenix, that's for sure. It's not gloom like the PNW, though.
- I've heard it can get really cold compared to California/Arizona Well that depends on where you are in CA and AZ, doesn't it? I've been in a foot of snow near Flagstaff. But yes it will be colder than Phoenix. Most places would be. Check https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...leigh/historic for past weather.
- It seems a little too quite/boring, compared to what I saw in Phoenix I'm not really down with this comment at all and have been following the debate. It really depends on your specific interests. I lived in LA for a little while fwiw. For my interests there is plenty to do here, but if you like going to pro football games then Raleigh is not going to have that. I have zero interest in that, like if someone gave me tickets I would probably pass them along to someone else rather than go, but there is a great music scene and arts scene here. There are good museums and one of the best zoos in the country is just about 1.5 hrs away in Asheboro (currently on Nat Geo Wild).
- Threat of flooding/hurricanes can destroy home No, that's very unlikely. Your house is not likely to flood in Raleigh. It is very rare (though possible) that a hurricane could make it as far as Raleigh, but usually they downgrade to a Tropical Storm or Tropical Depression and just bring a lot of rain and creeks might flood, maybe a road or two or some low lying areas like the parking lot of Crabtree Valley Mall, but it's not common that houses flood. We do have severe thunderstorms in the spring and summer and you will get warnings on your phone about that, but mostly they don't cause widespread damage. In general you are in much worse danger from the roads than the weather here. You will not have fires like you have around Sacramento.
What is everyone's opinion?
For ME personally, I would much rather live in Raleigh than Phoenix or Sacramento, but that's ME. I do like hot and sunny, but not dry and not 100+ degrees. The brown-ness of the desert and the landscape around Sacramento really gets to me. I like the Southeast where there are trees everywhere and it is green.
I guess if it were me, I'd choose Phoenix area, I thought about Raleigh years ago and realized it's in the heart of the bible belt, not for me....if for you then OK.... I'm in So. Cal. 55 yrs and no plans to leave, thought about it, but here I am...where I belong...works good in my life. I rent and have no desire to own anything, as it all begins to own us.
Side story here. A friend was able to retire early from his "silicon valley" job and wanted to move where he could get more for his money, He is gay and this has a bearing. So he picked up and moved to Raleigh area and was "dying" there, Maybe lasted there 10 yrs or so and he and his dog packed up and moved to his home state of IL and we have lost contact recently, so I hope he's comfortable now...
Last edited by jaminhealth; 12-28-2020 at 01:40 PM..
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