Preferable State: Ohio or Michigan (rates, crime, life, best)

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by TheProf

As an undergraduate institution, most academics would seriously disagree with you. The fact is, any large public university, including Berkeley and UCLA, would have a tough time matching a powerhouse, smaller elite private university as Case. Graduate level -- sure, UM is tough to beat. But even some UM students and alums refer to its College of Literature, Science and the Arts (LSA) as LSplAy. On the undergraduate level, UM has more in common with the average Big 10 state university (and the best in the nation are in the Big 10) such as Wisconsin, Illinois, and even MSU, than it does Harvard, Yale, Duke, Stanford or even the larger Ivies such as Penn and Cornell.

I think that landscape has changed somewhat even at the undergrad level because many of the most prominent public universities like Berkeley, UCLA, and UM have turned to greatly opening up their out-of-state enrollment in order to get that much higher amounts of tuition money and has also greatly opened up the competitiveness of the student body for those seats. I'm not sure if this is also true for UM, but this has in turn created a cottage industry of people sending their kids to California for parts or all of high school or for community college as an easier pathway to getting to a UC. All of which has made this a very competitive process. I think Case Western is very good, but I think top tier public universities in the US like Berkeley, UCLA, and UM generally do fine matching elite private universities even on the undergraduate level.

[BigLake]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Some guides have listed UM, Miami, MSU, and OSU all as Public Ivy's. To be sure, UM is the most highly rated of the public universities in the two states, but sometimes its supporters over-inflate its quality, especially at the undergraduate level (professional school-wise, yes, it's fantastic)... Also, I think posters are tending to underrate Case Western Reserve U which, to me, is practically at the same level as UM, and certainly delivers a more intense, closer faculty-to-student education than UM.

I've never seen a guide -- or even casual mention -- with either OSU nor MSU referenced as a public Ivy. If you find one that has MSU in it, I'd throw the book away. Not sure why you have such an axe to grind re: Michigan. It's actually ranked higher by many more credible outlets (QS, London Times, etc.) than US News & World Report, where it's generally ranked its lowest. It's the pre-eminent university in either Michigan and Ohio. Someone put it well before... U of M leads all Ohio/MI universities, but Ohio fares well with regards to smaller liberal arts schools (Kenyon, Oberlin, Wooster, etc.). Very well indeed.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by BigLake

I've never seen a guide -- or even casual mention -- with either OSU nor MSU referenced as a public Ivy. If you find one that has MSU in it, I'd throw the book away. Not sure why you have such an axe to grind re: Michigan. It's actually ranked higher by many more credible outlets (QS, London Times, etc.) than US News & World Report, where it's generally ranked its lowest. It's the pre-eminent university in either Michigan and Ohio. Someone put it well before... U of M leads all Ohio/MI universities, but Ohio fares well with regards to smaller liberal arts schools (Kenyon, Oberlin, Wooster, etc.). Very well indeed.

It's the Greene Guide of the early 1990s. Buy it, and throw it away if you wish. I have no ax to grind with UM, just the UM attitude, not just recognizing it's a good school -- it is, but their need to believe they're God's Gift on the planet and put other schools down. Thankfully, it's not just me, and many others outside UM who feel this way, but a number of UM students and alums. As anyone will tell you, UM is a fine public university, among the best in America, ... but come on. Other good schools exist, too, and MSU is one of them. Miami U and Case Western, too.

[riffle]

Preferable State: Ohio or Michigan

- Preferred Location: Michigan is more scenic, Ohio is a shorter drive to the East coast.
- Brighter Future: Ohio
- Best Major Cities: I like Ohio's three over Detroit.
- Best Secondary Cities: Michigan
- Topography & Landscapes: Michigan
- Economy: Ohio
- Higher Education: Michigan but it's close
- Weather: Michigan
- The State I Prefer is? Michigan

I would choose to live in Holland followed by Grand Rapids followed by Columbus suburbs.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by mwj119

The extra few degree swing makes that big of a difference to you?

Without looking at average temperatures in the major population centers of both States, id almost gauruntee its 2-3-4 degrees in all seasons. Ohio ain’t exactly palm trees.

Well my preferred areas of Michigan are the northern parts, especially the UP (in the summer). My preferred area of Ohio is the Southern part near Kentucky.

The climate difference between those two places is significant.

Marquette, Michigan is 12 degrees colder than Cincinnati on average, which makes for a totally different climate. It's about as different as Philadelphia is from Tallahassee

[Landolakes90]

Originally Posted by Space_League

Marquette, Michigan is 12 degrees colder than Cincinnati on average, which makes for a totally different climate. It's about as different as Philadelphia is from Tallahassee

You're comparing the 2 most extreme parts of each state to make your point there. That's a nearly 700 mile separation between the 2. It's nearly 500 miles from the Michigan/Ohio border to Marquette alone. Not to mention Marquette is a coastal community with temps that are heavily influenced by Lake Superior. This can create a 10-15 degree difference from communities 20 miles inland on it's own. I'm not sure how intellectually honest of a comparison that is to the overall point you were responding to. Using the law of averages the temperature differences between Michigan and Ohio are not that disparate.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by Landolakes90

You're comparing the 2 most extreme parts of each state to make your point there. That's a nearly 700 mile separation between the 2. It's nearly 500 miles from the Michigan/Ohio border to Marquette alone. Not to mention Marquette is a coastal community with temps that are heavily influenced by Lake Superior. This can create a 10-15 degree difference from communities 20 miles inland on it's own. I'm not sure how intellectually honest of a comparison that is to the overall point you were responding to. Using the law of averages the temperature differences between Michigan and Ohio are not that disparate.

I get your point. I'm just comparing which place in each state I would choose to live in if I had to live in each state. It just happens to be the most dramatic difference in weather. Comparing Cleveland to Detroit, for example, will probably be a negligible difference

[mwj119]

Originally Posted by Space_League

Well my preferred areas of Michigan are the northern parts, especially the UP (in the summer). My preferred area of Ohio is the Southern part near Kentucky.

The climate difference between those two places is significant.

Marquette, Michigan is 12 degrees colder than Cincinnati on average, which makes for a totally different climate. It's about as different as Philadelphia is from Tallahassee

I mean, yes. The southern most part of the state to the south, and the northern most part of the state to the north will vary considerably.

There’s a reason only 300k call the UP home. 3% of Michigans population. The other 97% treat it as vacationland.

On the whole, however, and in the population centers, the difference is negligible.

Edit to add: It surprises me you’d use temperature as the advantage for Ohio, and then turn around and call the UP your favorite part of Michigan.

[BigLake]

Originally Posted by TheProf

It's the Greene Guide of the early 1990s. Buy it, and throw it away if you wish. I have no ax to grind with UM, just the UM attitude, not just recognizing it's a good school -- it is, but their need to believe they're God's Gift on the planet and put other schools down. Thankfully, it's not just me, and many others outside UM who feel this way, but a number of UM students and alums. As anyone will tell you, UM is a fine public university, among the best in America, ... but come on. Other good schools exist, too, and MSU is one of them. Miami U and Case Western, too.

Thanks for the heads-up, Prof. I had not seen that guide.

[mwj119]

Originally Posted by BigLake

Thanks for the heads-up, Prof. I had not seen that guide.

MSU is a fine State school.

But the acceptance rate is 83%.

Ivy is a bit… Strong?