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No major metros in the san Joaquin valley. Only medium sized metros. That's why ppl don't talk about the region(1.5+ million ppl is major in my book) Unemployment was lowish before Covid and will return to low once Covid madness is over in the san Joaquin. As a matter of fact, trump got a boost in voters because of the lowered unemployment.
There's a lot of poverty/issues in the sj valley but they're all being addressed. You really think the politicos of California are ignoring one of its fastest growing regions?
I had a friend who lived in Maine back in the 00s. He couldn't wait to get out. He grew up with money, too. He loved the beauty of the state, but hated the provincial attitude of the people. I'm sure things have improved since then, but this hip Maine ppl are describing on here sounds like fantasy. Some of these ppl remind me of Midwesterners who glorify everything socal. Take strong CD opinions with a grain of salt, folks
Some people also just have more positive dispositions. Others just have more negative dispositions. I guess it's all about knowing yourself.
Actually I have, lol. Multiple times I have traveled up during the winter to stay with friends for skiing. But thanks for your assumption!
None of what you're saying proves Maine is an economic wasteland. Still waiting on the data that backs up the claim. To me, a word as strong as "wasteland" could maybe be applied to the top 10 poorest states. Maybe.
But that's not the offseason in the ski country (I have property near Sunday River). Try visiting ski country in May or November. Dead. Go spend some time in Bar Harbor in December. It's absolutely desolate. Beautiful. But desolate.
You're fixated on a single word. Whether or not "wasteland" is too strong is debatable, but Maine is not strong economically by any measure. The Midcoast towns that boom from June-September are empty and offer few employment opportunities for the majority of the year. Not even restaurant work. Mainers are resourceful in that many will work odd jobs to make ends meet (server restaurant in the summer, cutting/selling firewood and plowing in the winter), but getting by does not equal prosperous. You go to those placesif you already have money. You don't go there to make money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
Yeah I don't think you guys are getting my point. My point isn't that Maine has a stronger economy than California (that's obviously not true). My point isn't that there are oodles of corporate, white-collar jobs in Maine. My point is that the term "economic wasteland" is really strong, and should be saved for the poorest of states. Maine does get by on tourism, seasonal residents, remote workers, etc. who "artificially" boost the economy. This dynamic keeps Maine afloat much better than the most economically depressed states.
And I don't think there's much point in saying that Maine is an economic wasteland "at the very least in comparison to a place like CA." It would be unbecoming to call an average looking man "absolutely hideous, at the very least in comparison to the young Jake Gyllenhaal." Just say it is not as economically powerful as California, which is obviously true.
No, we get it. It's simply that Maine does not provide much economic opportunity. Maine's middle of the pack in terms of percentage of the population living in poverty, but it's closer to the bottom in terms of median household income. And those stats don't paint a complete picture. Much of the wealth is centered around either Portland or the very southern tip of Maine where a large percentage of people commute to the northern Metro Boston area for jobs. Outside of that small southern pocket, the economy in Maine is bleak. Even the popular seasonal towns are few and far between. Take a trip through Rumford, Millenocket, Lincoln, Milo, Skowhegan, Caribou, Sanford, etc. Much more of Maine looks like that than Camden, Rockland, Bar Harbor, or the Old Port. And to get by in those towns, people need to be incredibly resourceful. You can fixate on "wasteland" if you want, but there's absolutely no denying that Maine doesn't provide a lot of economic opportunity. You keep saying "it's not California and there are no Fortune 500 companies" and that's true, but it's closer to the "poor" states you refer to than it is to California.
But that's not the offseason in the ski country (I have property near Sunday River). Try visiting ski country in May or November. Dead. Go spend some time in Bar Harbor in December. It's absolutely desolate. Beautiful. But desolate.
You're fixated on a single word. Whether or not "wasteland" is too strong is debatable, but Maine is not strong economically by any measure. The Midcoast towns that boom from June-September are empty and offer few employment opportunities for the majority of the year. Not even restaurant work. Mainers are resourceful in that many will work odd jobs to make ends meet (server restaurant in the summer, cutting/selling firewood and plowing in the winter), but getting by does not equal prosperous. You go to those placesif you already have money. You don't go there to make money.
No, we get it. It's simply that Maine does not provide much economic opportunity. Maine's middle of the pack in terms of percentage of the population living in poverty, but it's closer to the bottom in terms of median household income. And those stats don't paint a complete picture. Much of the wealth is centered around either Portland or the very southern tip of Maine where a large percentage of people commute to the northern Metro Boston area for jobs. Outside of that small southern pocket, the economy in Maine is bleak. Even the popular seasonal towns are few and far between. Take a trip through Rumford, Millenocket, Lincoln, Milo, Skowhegan, Caribou, Sanford, etc. Much more of Maine looks like that than Camden, Rockland, Bar Harbor, or the Old Port. And to get by in those towns, people need to be incredibly resourceful. You can fixate on "wasteland" if you want, but there's absolutely no denying that Maine doesn't provide a lot of economic opportunity. You keep saying "it's not California and there are no Fortune 500 companies" and that's true, but it's closer to the "poor" states you refer to than it is to California.
Okay, to be fair I was fixated on a single (actually, two) word(s) because people were disagreeing with me for saying that "economic wasteland" is an exaggeration. And for the record, it is an exaggeration. If you want to disagree with me about my point, be prepared for me to stay on the point. I have been to "economic wastelands." Maine, especially when spoken of so broadly, certainly does not qualify.
Right, and you guys can fixate on the word "prosperous" all you want, but the actual context I was speaking about was far more relaxed in saying that there are "many prosperous small towns" (note: I did not say the majority of small towns are prosperous, etc.) than the blanket statement that "Maine is an economic wasteland."
People who call ME an economic wasteland will be very surprised at what the great states of Rural NC, SC, GA, MS, NoFlo, AL, MS, LA, AR, MO, TN not BNA, IN not Indy, OK not OKC, KN, NE not Omaha, WV, SD are like... to name just a few...
People who call ME an economic wasteland will be very surprised at what the great states of Rural NC, SC, GA, MS, NoFlo, AL, MS, LA, AR, MO, TN not BNA, IN not Indy, OK not OKC, KN, NE not Omaha, WV, SD are like... to name just a few...
Agree here, and honestly it'd be unbecoming to call many/most of those sates, wholesale, "economic wastelands."
Agree here, and honestly it'd be unbecoming to call many/most of those sates, wholesale, "economic wastelands."
Yeah very much so.
I mean if we are comparing rural ME (Which is .. just trees?) to Boston. Sure?? But like, in general.. it is not. Thats silly.
And yeah, most of the places I mentioned.. I would not even consider them wastelands. Especially since some of these have house appreciations of over 50% YOY thanks to COVID.
One of the areas I mentioned had an average home value of 84k in 2017 and 96k in 2020, now home values are 175k. Thats just one inidcator.
Okay, to be fair I was fixated on a single (actually, two) word(s) because people were disagreeing with me for saying that "economic wasteland" is an exaggeration. And for the record, it is an exaggeration. If you want to disagree with me about my point, be prepared for me to stay on the point. I have been to "economic wastelands." Maine, especially when spoken of so broadly, certainly does not qualify.
Right, and you guys can fixate on the word "prosperous" all you want, but the actual context I was speaking about was far more relaxed in saying that there are "many prosperous small towns" (note: I did not say the majority of small towns are prosperous, etc.) than the blanket statement that "Maine is an economic wasteland."
Semantics aside, the people who were disagreeing with you are right. Sure, I don't think "wasteland" is a good way to describe any state in this country. But the vast majority of Maine has a good deal more in common with the poorest states in the U.S. than it does with the strongest economic hubs. The key difference between Maine and a place like West Virginia is that Maine at least has significant tourism to lift it off of the bottom of the pile. But those tourist communities only make up a small fraction of the state as a whole and most visitors don't see what the bulk of Maine is really like. When you talk about places like Bar Harbor, Camden, etc. they're outliers and largely populated by seasonal residents and retirees. That's not how the average Mainer lives. Your "perspective" seems to be based on a couple of select data points and visits to touristy areas during peak tourist season. That's not an accurate perspective.
The divide between the tourist/seasonal resident's Maine and the real Maine is a hot topic among locals. Just pop into the Maine forum and you'll undoubtedly see threads on the topic. The "Maine" in the Downeast Magazine and on the Travel Channel is not what the bulk of the state looks like. In terms of stats, Maine is on the lower end of average household income and near the top in terms of cost of living. The bulk of the wealth that does exist in Maine is concentrated in the southwestern corner of the state, and much of it is imported by retirees (the oldest state in the nation and young people are fleeing for economic opportunity) and seasonal residents who list Maine as a primary residence - not as a result of capitalizing on Maine's economic opportunity. If you don't like the word "wasteland," choose a different one - one dimensional, struggling, weak, etc. But no matter how you slice it, Maine's economy is near the bottom of the pack by most metrics. It's really not debatable.
People who call ME an economic wasteland will be very surprised at what the great states of Rural NC, SC, GA, MS, NoFlo, AL, MS, LA, AR, MO, TN not BNA, IN not Indy, OK not OKC, KN, NE not Omaha, WV, SD are like... to name just a few...
Most of those states are better off from an economic standpoint than Maine. In the real world, where we can't pretend certain metros don't exist or separate them from the rest of the state, the bulk of those are are better off than Maine. Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, New Orleans, Little Rock, Nashville, Kansas City, OKC, Omaha, and Indianapolis do exist and Maine has no equivalent or anything even comparable. And in terms of rural Maine, most of it isn't particularly much better off than the rural communities in most of those places.
Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
Yeah very much so.
I mean if we are comparing rural ME (Which is .. just trees?) to Boston. Sure?? But like, in general.. it is not. Thats silly.
And yeah, most of the places I mentioned.. I would not even consider them wastelands. Especially since some of these have house appreciations of over 50% YOY thanks to COVID.
One of the areas I mentioned had an average home value of 84k in 2017 and 96k in 2020, now home values are 175k. Thats just one inidcator.
How about if we're comparing Maine to California (like this thread is intended to do) - one of the strongest economies vs. one of the weakest? Is it "silly" then?
Semantics aside, the people who were disagreeing with you are right. Sure, I don't think "wasteland" is a good way to describe any state in this country. But the vast majority of Maine has a good deal more in common with the poorest states in the U.S. than it does with the strongest economic hubs. The key difference between Maine and a place like West Virginia is that Maine at least has significant tourism to lift it off of the bottom of the pile. But those tourist communities only make up a small fraction of the state as a whole and most visitors don't see what the bulk of Maine is really like. When you talk about places like Bar Harbor, Camden, etc. they're outliers and largely populated by seasonal residents and retirees. That's not how the average Mainer lives. Your "perspective" seems to be based on a couple of select data points and visits to touristy areas during peak tourist season. That's not an accurate perspective.
The divide between the tourist/seasonal resident's Maine and the real Maine is a hot topic among locals. Just pop into the Maine forum and you'll undoubtedly see threads on the topic. The "Maine" in the Downeast Magazine and on the Travel Channel is not what the bulk of the state looks like. In terms of stats, Maine is on the lower end of average household income and near the top in terms of cost of living. The bulk of the wealth that does exist in Maine is concentrated in the southwestern corner of the state, and much of it is imported by retirees (the oldest state in the nation and young people are fleeing for economic opportunity) and seasonal residents who list Maine as a primary residence - not as a result of capitalizing on Maine's economic opportunity. If you don't like the word "wasteland," choose a different one - one dimensional, struggling, weak, etc. But no matter how you slice it, Maine's economy is near the bottom of the pack by most metrics. It's really not debatable.
Okay, so everything you are saying does not conflict with what I said. So what are you and said posters disagreeing with exactly?
I've actually traveled through and stayed in inland Maine. It wasn't shocking to me. I grew up in Appalachia.
Yeah the tourist season helps keep it afloat. It sure does lift it off of the bottom of the pile. That's actually what I'm saying. And?
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Just say it is not as economically powerful as California, which is obviously true.
