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That's because Kearney actually measures city metrics unlike GaWC which in a city like Washington recently dropped on the list due to the last administrations repeated attempts to separate the US from the rest of the world. This had very little to do with the city proper itself not performing. I think the last administration affected both lists, because Washington was top 10 in the world on Kearney just 3 years ago. What helps SF on Kearney's list is this isn't only city proper metrics and I believe counting the entire Bay Area as "SF".
Those don’t seem like fundamentally different lists. I’m confused how you can think
NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Boston, DC, Dallas, Miami is a list with no merit
But NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, DC, Boston, Miami, Atlanta is super great?
The fact is DC/Houston/Dallas/Boston/Miami are all more or less interchangeable at number 5 with a clear distinction of SF at 4. The lists are different because slightly different criteria shuffle the 5-10 group of American cities. Not because one list is crap.
Since I think we can all agree that "big money" most fundamentally what really drives importance in today's world, the 2020 personal income numbers are interesting. The "Top 14" referenced in this thread have different strengths/weakness depending on how it's represented, whether it's how much money is flowing through these areas overall, a per capita measure looking more at individual wealth, or the "real" per capita income measure, which adjusts for inflationary differences:
2020 Total Personal Income by MSA (in Thousands of dollars)
New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA $1,574T
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA $915B
Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI $637B
San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA $522B
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV $486B
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX $474B
Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar $429B
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD $426B
Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH $418B
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL $396B
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA $358B
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA $323B
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI $251B
2020 Per Capita Personal Income by MSA
San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $111,050
Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $85,724
New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $82,322
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $80,420
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV (Metropolitan Statistical Area) * $76,771
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $69,805
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $69,705
Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $67,671
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $64,190
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $61,554
Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $59,893
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $58,773
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $58,356
2020 Real Per Capita Personal Income by MSA
San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $85,408
Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $70,207
Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $64,844
New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $64,352
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV (Metropolitan Statistical Area) * $62,134
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $61,534
Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $58,262
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $56,313
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $54,256
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Alpharetta, GA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $54,049
Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $54,023
Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $52,886
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL (Metropolitan Statistical Area) $52,684
To your liking, but oh well. That's life. You wanted to talk about cities proper and that's exactly what we did. 13% foreign born huh.
And I'm happy for your think tanks but we have thinkers too.
In fact in this past decade, San Jose surpassed DC to become the nation's most highly educated MSA and SF reached parity with DC.
Adults with a Bachelor Degree or Higher, 2019(2010)
San Jose MSA 52.7%(45.3%)
San Francisco MSA 51.4%(43.4%)
Washington MSA 51.4%(46.8%)
Baltimore MSA 41.9%(35.1%)
Lots of thinkers learned to think in the Bay Area:
Nobel Prize Laureates by University
Harvard 161
Berkeley 110
U Chicago 100
MIT 97
Columbia 96
Stanford 84
Cal Tech 76
Princeton 69
Yale 65
Cornell 61
Johns Hopkins 39
NYU 38
Rockefeller 38
Penn 36
Illinois Urbana-Champaign 30
Some of the best thinkers in the world attend local schools:
US News Best Business Schools
#3 Stanford
#8 Berkeley
#22 Georgetown
US News Best Law Schools:
#2 Stanford
#9 Berkeley
#14 Georgetown
US News Best Medical Schools(Research)
#3-TIED Johns Hopkins
#3 TIED UC San Francisco
#8 Stanford
US News Best Engineering Schools
#2 Stanford
#3 Berkeley
#16 Johns Hopkins
US News Best Education Schools:
#9 Stanford
#14 Johns Hopkins
And a lot of thinkers from back there strangely find their way out here.
Top 4 Cities by Ivy League Graduates:
Brown
1 New York
2 Providence
3 Boston
4 San Francisco
Dartmouth
1 New York
2 Boston
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
Princeton
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Boston
Cornell
1 New York
2 San Francisco
3 Washington
4 Boston
Yale
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Boston
Columbia
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Los Angeles
Penn
1 New York
2 Philadelphia
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
Harvard
1 Boston
2 New York
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
I mean, at this point we could stand to do a little less thinking if you ask me.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Those don’t seem like fundamentally different lists. I’m confused how you can think
NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Boston, DC, Dallas, Miami is a list with no merit
But NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, DC, Boston, Miami, Atlanta is super great?
The fact is DC/Houston/Dallas/Boston/Miami are all more or less interchangeable at number 5 with a clear distinction of SF at 4. The lists are different because slightly different criteria shuffle the 5-10 group of American cities. Not because one list is crap.
GaWC isn't a list comparing city influence. It's about corporate offices opening in a specified amount of time, and their current collaboration worldwide. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. It also is gauging entire metro areas, and in the case of SF the entire Bay Area.
I work from the inside-out in when comparing cities. Not from the CSA back inward. The most relevant city cores are those with the largest work force and most business activity in them. Afterwards it can radiate outward to suburbs.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
To your liking, but oh well. That's life. You wanted to talk about cities proper and that's exactly what we did. 13% foreign born huh.
And I'm happy for your think tanks but we have thinkers too.
In fact in this past decade, San Jose surpassed DC to become the nation's most highly educated MSA and SF reached parity with DC.
Adults with a Bachelor Degree or Higher, 2019(2010)
San Jose MSA 52.7%(45.3%)
San Francisco MSA 51.4%(43.4%)
Washington MSA 51.4%(46.8%)
Baltimore MSA 41.9%(35.1%)
Lots of thinkers learned to think in the Bay Area:
Nobel Prize Laureates by University
Harvard 161
Berkeley 110
U Chicago 100
MIT 97
Columbia 96
Stanford 84
Cal Tech 76
Princeton 69
Yale 65
Cornell 61
Johns Hopkins 39
NYU 38
Rockefeller 38
Penn 36
Illinois Urbana-Champaign 30
Some of the best thinkers in the world attend local schools:
US News Best Business Schools
#3 Stanford
#8 Berkeley
#22 Georgetown
US News Best Law Schools:
#2 Stanford
#9 Berkeley
#14 Georgetown
US News Best Medical Schools(Research)
#3-TIED Johns Hopkins
#3 TIED UC San Francisco
#8 Stanford
US News Best Engineering Schools
#2 Stanford
#3 Berkeley
#16 Johns Hopkins
US News Best Education Schools:
#9 Stanford
#14 Johns Hopkins
And a lot of thinkers from back there strangely find their way out here.
Top 4 Cities by Ivy League Graduates:
Brown
1 New York
2 Providence
3 Boston
4 San Francisco
Dartmouth
1 New York
2 Boston
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
Princeton
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Boston
Cornell
1 New York
2 San Francisco
3 Washington
4 Boston
Yale
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Boston
Columbia
1 New York
2 Washington
3 San Francisco
4 Los Angeles
Penn
1 New York
2 Philadelphia
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
Harvard
1 Boston
2 New York
3 San Francisco
4 Washington
I mean, at this point we could stand to do a little less thinking if you ask me.
Great another list of comparing MSA/CSA attributes that more or less cancel each other out.
Yet nothing to explain what happens in the city of San Francisco on a daily basis that's more relevant or important to the nation's daily survival or progress, other than the locals foreign born percentage, and how many new residents are in Chinatown lmao.
GaWC isn't a list comparing city influence. It's about corporate offices opening in a specified amount of time, and their current collaboration worldwide. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. It also is gauging entire metro areas, and in the case of SF the entire Bay Area.
I work from the inside-out in when comparing cities. Not from the CSA back inward. The most relevant city cores are those with the largest work force and most business activity in them. Afterwards it can radiate outward to suburbs.
That’s a pretty good proxy for how influential a city is on the world. You can’t measure “importance” directly. There is no importance-O-meter.
That’s a pretty good proxy for how influential a city is on the world. You can’t measure “importance” directly. There is no importance-O-meter.
Well... it's a pretty good proxy for how influential a city is from a strictly commercial perspective. It doesn't really account for political or cultural influence.
Well... it's a pretty good proxy for how influential a city is from a strictly commercial perspective. It doesn't really account for political or cultural influence.
How different is that list than economic influence?
Maybe Miami bring a more culturally important than economically? Probably the biggest gap?
“Business” is not just Liberty Mutual insurance. Netflix is a business, Capitol Records is a business, McDonalds is a business. “Business” influences everyday life it’s not just paper pushers doing arithmetic in excel.
All 3 of those things basically correlate.
There is a reason the top 8 if both lists has the same top 4, DC and Boston flipped and Houston subbed for Dallas but are fundamentally the same.
That’s a pretty good proxy for how influential a city is on the world. You can’t measure “importance” directly. There is no importance-O-meter.
The GaWC constantly is taken out of context, too, and often given way too much credit for its relatively narrow scope.
It's more than a stretch to say that it's measuring a city's world "influence." It's fundamentally about connectedness:
Quote:
Researchers from the Globalization and World Cities (GaWC) Research Network, based at Loughborough and Ghent University, have ranked 707 cities from across the globe according to how integrated they are with the world economy.
Cities are assessed in terms of their advanced producer services using the interlocking network model (see GaWC Research Bulletin 23). Indirect measures of flows are derived to compute a city's network connectivity � this measures a city's integration into the world city network.
Following on from the idea of control and command centres, world city formation was initially defined in terms of location of transnational corporate headquarters (both world-wide and regional) - see King, (1990, chapter 2) and Beaverstock, Smith and Taylor (2000) for reviews. More recently, a more refined definition focuses upon just one category of multinational firm, those providing business services.1 Like all cities past and present, world cities provide services but contemporary advanced producer services (e.g. accounting, advertising, finance, insurance, and law applied in transnational contexts) are different; they constitute a leading edge of the world economy in their own right. This is Sassen's (1991, 126) basic argument: these cities have 'a particular component in their economic base' which gives them a 'specific role in the current phase of the world economy'. World cities have become centres for the production and consumption of the advanced services in the organisation of global capital.
It's one measure of a very complex and complicated topic to measure.
A comment relating to the list 18Montclair posted below as it relates to my favorite also-ran big city:
I can think of a time when Philadelphia wouldn't have appeared at all on the list of cities that attract the most Penn graduates.
The local business community saw that fact as worrisome, and along with our region's tourism promotion agency and other groups seeking to attract people and businesses here (with then-Penn President and West Philly homegirl Judith Rodin heading up the effort), launched an organization called "Campus Philly" whose main goal was to get the students who came here to study exploring the city while they were here.
Clearly, the effort worked.
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