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Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Kearney has a slightly different ranking of its top 10:
1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. SF
5. DC
6. Boston
7. Miami
8. Atlanta
9. Houston
10. Seattle
Surprised to see Denver higher than Philly and Seattle on GaWC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Yup, I said as much in my post that it's office locations.
I all-capped Boston because I forgot to mention it in my last post.
It actually looks like this is by city proper because San Jose and Palo Alto both make this list, meaning they have separate scores.
2020 GAWC Cities Classification:
This is in order btw.
Alpha Cities
1 New York
2 Los Angeles
3 Chicago
4 San Francisco
5 BOSTON
Beta Cities
6 Washington DC
7 Dallas
8 Miami
9 Houston
10 Atlanta
11 Denver
12 Philadelphia
13 Seattle
14 Tampa
15 Minneapolis
16 San Diego
17 Detroit
18 Austin
Gamma
19 San Jose
20 Charlotte
21 St Louis
22 Phoenix
23 Orlando
24 Baltimore
25 Nashville
26 Cleveland
27 Kansas City
28 Milwaukee
29 Salt Lake City
30 Columbus
31 Sacramento
High Sufficiency
32 Raleigh
33 Indianapolis
34 San Antonio
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Miami has the largest concentration of international banks in the US—you did ask what is it known for….Palm Beach, not just Miami, seeing noticeable domestic hedge fund and private equity growth…also, if one goes by the GFCI ranking, used here on CD, Miami is not ranked because it does not participate in that firm’s study and is a noticeable omission. I guess one could say it’s a city that attracts global wealth, particularly the UHNWI like a few-several other US cities—see Knight Frank (luxury real estate but one example), but that not being an industry not sure how one would classify that. I was also somewhat surprised to see Miami ranked 7th in terms of federal income tax paid, per an earlier post from 18Montclair on page 12, given the absence of any mega industry outside of tourism that exists here and based on REPORTED (and, therefore, taxable—not “hidden”, of which there is plenty) income levels. Could be hard to label because a portion of its wealth comes from elsewhere (US and abroad) and a good amount is “hidden” (LLC, shell corporation, underreported, illegal laundered, etc)….the hype in the past year or two has been tech in Miami—that is limited and has been overstated; Miami fares much better in finance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atadytic19
Miami is certainly growing as a financial center, but currently it's not in the top 5. If I list finance for Miami I would also have to list it for Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, DC, because all of them currently rank higher.
As far as trade it doesn't rank as high as I would have thought. For example, if you add up trade from Miami Sea and Air ports is still less than that of New Orleans or Savanah.
Miami is carving out a niche for itself but I can't place a label on what that niche is just yet.
Last edited by elchevere; 04-14-2022 at 07:28 AM..
Lol..GaWC is basically a list of how many accounting, advertising, finance and law firms have offices in the city. Its not worthless. But it's far from a comprehensive list of a city's influence. Silicon Valley tech companies, Hollywood, DC government, Boston's educational and medical research facilities are all outside the scope of the rankings. Not sure how much value it has for this thread
I mean Harvard existed in 2012 and since then Boston has gone from a Beta to a Beta+ to an Alpha.
SF is also gone up. Maybe absolute location doesn’t tell anything definitive but it’s true Boston and SF have growing global profiles in the last decade
Last edited by btownboss4; 04-14-2022 at 07:33 AM..
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
But really, aside from the three branches of the federal government, which is run by out-of-towners like Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris, what institutitions in DC are you talking about?
You said something about the IMF and World Bank? Wells Fargo is bigger than both of them combined. Visa too. Right?
You talk about embassies, and yet:
Foreign Born Population 2020:
San Francisco Proper 34%
Washington DC Proper 13%
haha^ what?
For that matter, DC proper's demographic profile actually seems like any other lovely southern city.
DC Racial Breakdown:
46% Black
39% White
11% Hispanic
4% Asian
2% Multiracial
SF is very different from just about any mainland US city, maybe aside from San Jose.
SF Racial Breakdown:
39% White
34% Asian
15% Hispanic
7% Multiracial
5% Black
Let's see, as far as education:
US News' Global Ranking of Universities
#11 University of California, San Francisco
#247 George Washington University, Washington
#314 Georgetown University, Washington
I mean we already talked about the fact that SF is a far more popular destination airport for way more ultra long haul flights.
San Francisco(SFO): 36
8,694 miles------Bangalore(Air India, United Airlines)
8,441 miles------Singapore(Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, United Airlines)
8,103 miles------Dubai(Emirates)
8,062 miles------Doha(Qatar Airways)
7,855 miles------Melbourne(Qantas, United Airlines)
7,825 miles------Ho Chi Minh City(Bamboo Airways)
7,707 miles------Delhi(Air India, United Airlines)
7,422 miles------Tel Aviv(El Al, United Airlines)
7,417 miles------Sydney(Qantas, United Airlines)
6,969 miles------Manila(Philippine Airlines)
6,927 miles------Hong Kong(Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, United Airlines)
6,897 miles------Guangzhou(Southern China Airlines)
6,870 miles------Chengdu(United Airlines)
6,705 miles------Istanbul(Turkish Airlines)
6,532 miles------Auckland(Air New Zealand, United Airlines)
6,469 miles------Taipei(China Airlines, EVA Airways, United Airlines)
6,264 miles------Rome(Alitalia)
6,142 miles------Shanghai(Eastern China Airlines, United Airlines)
5,970 miles------Barcelona(Level)
5,913 miles------Beijing(Air China, United Airlines)
5,879 miles------Munich(Lufthansa, United Airlines)
5,867 miles------Warsaw(LOT Polish Airlines)
5,840 miles------Zurich(Swiss International Air Lines, United Airlines)
5,790 miles------Madrid(Iberia)
5,699 miles------Frankfurt(Lufthansa, United Airlines)
5,659 miles------Seoul(Asiana Airlines, Korean Air, United Airlines)
5,583 miles------Paris(Air France, French Bee, United Airlines)
5,581 miles------Lisbon(TAP Portugal)
5,487 miles------Copenhagen(Scandinavian Airlines)
5,473 miles------Amsterdam(KLM, United Airlines)
5,458 miles------Nadi(Fiji Airways)
5,435 miles------Helsinki(Finnair)
5,413 miles------Osaka(United Airlines)
5,368 miles------London(British Airways, United Airlines, Virgin Atlantic)
5,124 miles------Tokyo(ANA, Japan Airlines, United Airlines)
5,086 miles------Dublin(Aer Lingus, United Airlines)
San Francisco is a much large global gateway than Washington DC is, we already know that from years of data.
Oh, and then there's this. Speaking of where people want to be, this is that ranking about where the financial services corporations and law firms and the like have the most office locations, right?
GAWC Cities Classification: Alpha Cities
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
San Francisco
Beta Cities
Washington DC
Oh, and also this.
2020 GDP San Francisco Proper $201 Billion
Washington DC Proper $144 Billion
2020 Per Capita GDP San Francisco Proper $230,000
Washington DC Proper $208,000
WOW, SF beats Canberra, I mean DC, at city-level GDP, even with all of those 'institutions' and very important bureaucrats scurrying about. LOL
You've done nothing to answer my question here, but blow a bunch of hot air.
What does the racial background have to do with the city's importance or influence and impact? What are the foreign born residents in the city doing of importance? What does a bunch of Chinese and Mexican immigrants moving to a 1 bedroom shack that they can barely afford, or worse living on the streets, do to make SF more influential than the nations capital? You never provide any specifics.
All these macro airline stats do not explain what takes place in San Francisco city proper to make it more relevant than the nation's capital city. And now you're literally falsifying by change the totals down from your previous posts, which were already incorrect for IAD. Lmao! Pathetic. Are all those people flying in town to create the new Twitter algorithms? Where is your data on that?
And GAWC which literally changes by the year, is about the least credible list you could choose, you can't actually believe that makes a city more relevant lol. GAWC does 0 to measure what takes place in a city or the relevance it has to the world. It's relates to how many new law firms, think tanks etc. were opened in a two year window. All the other years recorded by them in the past decade Washington was Alpha on that list, because it already dominates in having the most think tanks, law firms, and global organizations opened to begin with. You don't even know what your posting, lmao!
Let's get down to the facts.
SF does not have the level of global impact that the nation's capital does. Washington DC has 177 diplomatic missions and embassies, San Francisco proper has 42. That's practically 4 times the global reach. No amount of foreign born Chinese immigrants can change this sorry.
Today's news...In Washington DC: The US approves another $800 million in aid to Ukraine for new steelhead drones to combat Russian invasion. In SF: 10 new Twitter algorithms created, and Elon Musk turns down joining the company's board. Talk about a false equivalence!
Tech companies are leaving the Bay Area now, and downsizing in droves. SF will soon become impossible to do business in another 10 years if the cost of business doesn't drop.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
Lol..GaWC is basically a list of how many accounting, advertising, finance and law firms have offices in the city. Its not worthless. But it's far from a comprehensive list of a city's influence. Silicon Valley tech companies, Hollywood, DC government, Boston's educational and medical research facilities are all outside the scope of the rankings. Not sure how much value it has for this thread
Haha! Dude is straight loco. They literally change the list bi-yearly based on two things that have nothing to do with influence or global impact. GaWC is literally about communication between cities ONLY. Not relevance, and anyone falling into that trap thinking otherwise has lost it. Comical that's a response to my specific question.
Houston more dense than Boston? Never thought of that but pretty amazing to think about.
The urban areas. The Core of Boston is way more dense.
In really interesting in seeing how the 2020 changes mix things up. There are a lot of major changes proposed.
I think some will help north east cities. For example they want to eliminate including dips in population. The western cities have more uniform density so there are less dips. With the dips included in the calculation then the overall density numbers for Eastern city drops.
They also want to shorten the allowed gaps from 2.5 miles to 1.5miles. So we may see some formerly included areas no longer being included in the calculation.
Another change is the switch from people per sq mile to residential units per square mile.
My favorite proposed change is the splitting of urban agglomeration. It seems the OMB is getting weary of the daisy chain urban areas that are only large because they are near each other. The whole one dense area next to another being combined as one area doesn't give an accurate picture of the size of a city. They propose adding commuting data to determine Urban area size.
I do think the commuting criteria is too high though. Last I checked it was higher than that of MSA. If the OMB follows through the new criteria will hurt CSAs which combine major MSAs but have little effect on CSAs which just tack on minor micropolitan areas that use the big city for amenities such as jobs.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by elchevere
Kearney has a slightly different ranking of its top 10:
1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. SF
5. DC
6. Boston
7. Miami
8. Atlanta
9. Houston
10. Seattle
Surprised to see Denver higher than Philly and Seattle on GaWC.
That's because Kearney actually measures city metrics unlike GaWC which in a city like Washington recently dropped on the list due to the last administrations repeated attempts to separate the US from the rest of the world. This had very little to do with the city proper itself not performing. I think the last administration affected both lists, because Washington was top 10 in the world on Kearney just 3 years ago. What helps SF on Kearney's list is this isn't only city proper metrics and I believe counting the entire Bay Area as "SF", otherwise the usual 4 would still remain.
If we are talking population then it's Houston (no debate).
If we are talking name recognition, influence, etc., then it's up for debate.
But there is another thread for that. Here we go again, lol...
Sure, but despite MSA calcs, I view DC and Baltimore as one giant agglomeration of people, which puts it above Houston in population. I understand that not everyone sees it this way however
I mean Harvard existed in 2012 and since then Boston has gone from a Beta to a Beta+ to an Alpha.
SF is also gone up. Maybe absolute location doesn’t tell anything definitive but it’s true Boston and SF have growing global profiles in the last decade
Yes, Boston had the highest GDP growth rate in the Northeast during the last decade, while Washington slowed down signifacntly due to decreased govt spending when the recession ended. That really put a plug in the enormous growth DC was enjoying from around 2005ish(during the previous recession) through 2012 when the govt had to ramp up spending to prop up the economy again.
MSA GDP 2010----2020------2010-2020 Growth Rate
New York $1,288---$1,809---------+40%
Los Angeles $721---$1,007--------+28%
Chicago $523---$692---------------+32%
Washington $425--$561-------------+32%
Houston $353---$488----------------+38%
Philadelphia $343---$439------------+27%
Dallas $340---$53--------------------+57%
Boston $330---$480-----------------+45%
San Francisco $316---$588---------+86%
Atlanta $272---$425----------------+56%
Miami $250---$365------------------+46%
Seattle $240---$426-----------------+77%
Minneapolis $193---$270------------+39%
Detroit $192---$254-----------------+32%
Phoenix $178---$281----------------+57%
San Diego $167---$240--------------+43%
San Jose $167---$360---------------+115%
Baltimore $153---$205---------------+33%
Denver $142---$223------------------+57%
St Louis $138---$171-----------------+23%
Riverside $124---$190---------------+66%
Pittsburgh $116---$153--------------+31%
Tampa $115---$169------------------+46%
Charlotte $112---$184---------------+64%
Portland $110---$168----------------+52%
Austin $96---$168--------------------+75%
MSAs listed that posted 40%+ GDP growth 2010-2020:
San Jose +115%
San Francisco +86%
Seattle +77%
Austin +75%
Riverside +66%
Charlotte +64%
Dallas +57%
Denver +57%
Phoenix +57%
Atlanta +56%
Miami +46%
Tampa +46%
Boston +45%
San Diego +43%
New York +40%
So the Bay Area's 2 large MSAs had an amazing run this last decade, but I don't see this happening again, big tech is spreading now, and that's a good thing. I am eager to see how other areas learn from our mistakes, especially with respect to inclusion of blacks and latino into local tech scenes. I've been seeing good info out of Miami and Atlanta with respect to that, and I hope that really takes off.
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