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The issue is that D.C. is an actual full scale well rounded metropolis that couldn't just be compared on political clout. There's more major private industry in DC than 90% of American cities. The metro area is a life sciences hub, has major banking institutions, is home to over a dozen Fortune 500 companies, and even more Fortune 1000 companies, and is the 3rd media hub after NYC and LA. The city and region is a whole lot more than politics.
But even just politically it's the nerve center of the entire country. Not one state. Geo-politics, and being home to the federal government (2 things) makes the city a world class place of business just off the presence of being the nation's capital city. There are more foreign diplomats in DC than anywhere else. All of the largest tech companies have been present and are still expanding in and around DC, because they can't miss out on being in such an important city. Even at a small scale start ups, and a smaller tech scene exists there too, it really runs the gamut.
No I agree, D.C and NYC are the main hubs in the US... both regions influence eachother and its also ironic but not, that both regions are in opposite sections that span the true width of the nation. We can agree that the mid-west and south area are the middle grounds with it's own unique blend. DC surely punch above its weight given the city limit size but the metro paint a different picture like the CA metros.. only NYC metro can compete, everything else is second grade such as Boston specializing in medicine the same way Germany does and with vehicles, the same way Japan does cars and technology, they're extremely important but they tie in and follow lockstep with the main hubs (CA west - DC NYC east). For westcoast second grade cities, I'd consider Seattle and Portland. LA is NYC as DC is to SF. Let me add that I would give another notch to D.C considering that's where the president give commands and the center of formal direction in America. Give me NYC, L.A, D.C as top 3. The nuclear football is most likely in DC atm
Last edited by inflation; 04-14-2022 at 06:29 PM..
Honestly speaking, SF/SJ looks to be far more of a cohesive area than Baltimore-Washington. Doesn't matter though, since it's already one metro anyway.
The county between SF and San Jose, San Mateo, has 764k people. The two counties between DC and Baltimore, Anne Arundel and Prince George have a combined 1.7 million people. And again, it's a shorter distance from DC to Baltimore. The SF-SJ stretch is just constrained by water and mountains. It actually has far fewer people.
Leaving out the CSAs, the San Jose MSA+SF-Oakland MSA has 6.6 million people with a density of 1.057 per sq mi. But according to posters here, DC MSA + the Baltimore MSA is a less urban area with 9.2 million people and a density of 1,130 per sq mi.
The DC/Baltimore metros are larger, closer, have a larger population in the space between them with a higher population density.
The county between SF and San Jose, San Mateo, has 764k people. The two counties between DC and Baltimore, Anne Arundel and Prince George have a combined 1.7 million people. And again, it's a shorter distance from DC to Baltimore. The SF-SJ stretch is just constrained by water and mountains. It actually has far fewer people.
Leaving out the CSAs, the San Jose MSA+SF-Oakland MSA has 6.6 million people with a density of 1.057 per sq mi. But according to posters here, DC MSA + the Baltimore MSA is a less urban area with 9.2 million people and a density of 1,130 per sq mi.
The DC/Baltimore metros are larger, closer, have a larger population in the space between them with a higher population density.
Big Fat Nope.
The drive from San Francisco to San Jose on the 101 freeway is completely urbanized and has nearly unbroken 5,000+ population per square mile with many areas breaking 10,000+ppsm and makes the drive from DC to Baltimore look rural.
Hell, the drive from Oakland to San Jose is even busier as far as traffic on 880 and reaches a peak of 369,000 cars daily near the midpoint in Hayward.
I've done all these drives, there is no comparison whatsoever.
This is because California is in a different league when it comes to urban density. Urban Area Pop Density:
San Francisco 6,105
San Jose 5,820
Washington DC 3,470
Baltimore 3,073
DC is 35 miles from Baltimore. San Jose is 55 miles from San Francisco.
In poor rush hour traffic city border to border isn't more than 50 mins DC to Baltimore. There's nothing but suburbs in between the whole stretch. In the middle of the night it's less than 40 mins from city to city.
I get your point, but let's stop with the foolishness. You can say it's a more urbanized stretch resembling one one metro, but the cities are where they are DC and Baltimore sphere's overlap, there is no gap. You live in Chicago how do you know MARC times? It's 45 mins on the train from city to city during peak times.
You sound like you know nothing about the DMV, which is strange given how you spend your waking hours of every day on this site boosting it.
C’mon man. You know (at least pre-pandemic times) to go from Baltimore to DC or vice versa during rush hour is a NIGHTMARE. And on off-peak hours, it’s AT LEAST 40 mins, unless there’s been some lane expansion in the last few years. When you add in realistic traffic it’s an hour during off-peak times.
As for MARC, I took it from the Dorsey Station to Union Station for a summer fellowship. That was about 10 years ago. It was 1 hour in the morning and longer than that in the evening. And that is CLOSER to DC than Baltimore. You would add on at least 20-30 mins if you are catching it in Baltimore. Have you actually retaken the MARC before? Do you know how slowly it creeps. It is not some high speed express train.
There is no sense of connectivity between Baltimore and DC. Nowhere near the feeling of cohesiveness that you feel in “The Bay Area.” To try to claim otherwise is plain silly.
The drive from San Francisco to San Jose on the 101 freeway is completely urbanized and has nearly unbroken 5,000+ population per square mile with many areas breaking 10,000+ppsm and makes the drive from DC to Baltimore look rural.
Hell, the drive from Oakland to San Jose is even busier as far as traffic on 880 and reaches a peak of 369,000 cars daily near the midpoint in Hayward.
I've done all these drives, there is no comparison whatsoever.
This is because California is in a different league when it comes to urban density. Urban Area Pop Density:
San Francisco 6,105
San Jose 5,820
Washington DC 3,470
Baltimore 3,073
I mean, seriously. What?
I agree the Bay Area is the definition of urban, even the culture is strictly urban from the street level to corporate. The areas east of the big river are too wooded, too many trees in its terrain to construct a truely urban vast... thats not to take away how much more urban the actual city limits of every city and township could be.
This is recent aerial video footage of 101 right at the border of East Palo Alto(SF) driving into Palo Alto(SJ), that overpass is University Avenue(as in Stanford University)--there is literally no break from SF all the way to SJ as far as density and traffic volume.
I don't think just saying it's common sense really helps the argument and I also think that there's the possibility of a person being much more familiar with one area than the other such that a lack of sufficient information can be compensated via just common sense. DC and Baltimore are very close to each other. They do have very rapid rail services between each other, but it's either the fast but very expensive Amtrak tickets between the two or the pretty low frequency MARC services. Being familiar with the big cities is quite possible as that's what draws people's attention and what you're more likely to visit, but that won't tell you much about the degree of urbanization between the closest big cities. Not watching the local television channels or being familiar with these areas aren't going to make it easy to understand how much in shared regional identity or local cultural touchstones people have there. I imagine that my listing out details as the rationale for why SF-SJ should be considered one metropolitan area or at least more of one than DC-Baltimore probably sounds pretty reasonable to most including people who may be unfamiliar with one of the two or both.
I would like to point out that both Baltimore and DC each have their own television network affiliates. San Francisco and San Jose share the same affiliates. Baltimore and Washington grew separately and both have been established bustling cities going on well over 150 years. San Jose and it’s satellite cities grew as a result of post world war 2 suburban sprawl from the older established urban areas around Oakland and San Francisco.
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