Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We're making the same point. I'm saying there's nothing but suburban development in between making it more contiguous that others are making it seem.
You cannot compare the two areas. Baltimore did not become a large city because of suburban migration from Washington DC and it’s immediate area.
San Jose is the opposite of Baltimore. Look at the census figures from the late 50’s through the early 80’s. San Francisco/Oakland vicinities lost population during that time while San Jose grew at a rapid pace because it was the last section of the inner Bay Area that hard large parcels of undeveloped land at affordable prices. Silicon Valley was in its infancy in the 1960’s and the first half of the 70’s. There was a reason why the Southern Pacific Railroad ran the commute trains going back to the steam era between San Jose and San Francisco. The Bay Area is a linear metropolitan area with narrow corridors which is why you have cities 50 miles out, but they are every bit as connected as a hub city with surrounding satellite cities like Houston or Atlanta for example. San Jose is a suburb on steroids, that isn’t the case with Baltimore.
You cannot compare the two areas. Baltimore did not become a large city because of suburban migration from Washington DC and it’s immediate area.
San Jose is the opposite of Baltimore. Look at the census figures from the late 50’s through the early 80’s. San Francisco/Oakland vicinities lost population during that time while San Jose grew at a rapid pace because it was the last section of the inner Bay Area that hard large parcels of undeveloped land at affordable prices. Silicon Valley was in its infancy in the 1960’s and the first half of the 70’s. There was a reason why the Southern Pacific Railroad ran the commute trains going back to the steam era between San Jose and San Francisco. The Bay Area is a linear metropolitan area with narrow corridors which is why you have cities 50 miles out, but they are every bit as connected as a hub city with surrounding satellite cities like Houston or Atlanta for example. San Jose is a suburb on steroids, that isn’t the case with Baltimore.
Used to be in the Bay and now in NY...Exactly. And because the density is way lower in the Bay Area burbs, the commute is actually easier and often takes much less time if you drive. My commute from Sunnyvale to SF takes about the same time as my commute from Midtown to Bushwick by train, even though the direct distance is way longer in the former...
You cannot compare the two areas. Baltimore did not become a large city because of suburban migration from Washington DC and it’s immediate area.
San Jose is the opposite of Baltimore. Look at the census figures from the late 50’s through the early 80’s. San Francisco/Oakland vicinities lost population during that time while San Jose grew at a rapid pace because it was the last section of the inner Bay Area that hard large parcels of undeveloped land at affordable prices. Silicon Valley was in its infancy in the 1960’s and the first half of the 70’s. There was a reason why the Southern Pacific Railroad ran the commute trains going back to the steam era between San Jose and San Francisco. The Bay Area is a linear metropolitan area with narrow corridors which is why you have cities 50 miles out, but they are every bit as connected as a hub city with surrounding satellite cities like Houston or Atlanta for example. San Jose is a suburb on steroids, that isn’t the case with Baltimore.
There is an old map of Maryland, possibly from the 60s, before hyper suburbanization that shows Baltimore and DC and their urban areas were nowhere near each other. Two urban islands.
I really when into this somewhat unsure. But, over the course of thinking about this I feel more convinced it is the SF Bay Area.
DFW and Houston are huge areas, but they are geographically massive areas with large potions of the population living in low density exurban type areas. They in some sense Miami/South Florida is huge and feels a lot more densely developed that the Texas mega cities. Philly has a similar argument. Both have a case but, there are bigger CSAs out there.
DC/Baltimore is technically bigger then SF Bay. But, ultimately the Bay Area feels more cohesive. As others have noted it is denser than DC or Baltimore's MSA. While DC and Baltimore are a little closer than SF and SJ, the area between is a contiguous strip of streetcar suburbia (small lot residents in cities with walkable downtowns). By contrast DC to Baltimore is broken up by exurban strip malls and disconnected cul-de-sac type development. Just look at the Urban Area map, the SF Bay Area is seemless. Can't tell where SF ends and SJ starts. But contrast with DC/Baltimore you can clearly see two discrete UAs with some gaps between. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rban-Areas.svg
Looking at weighted population densities, SF and SJ are both significantly denser than DC and Baltimore. https://www.austincontrarian.com/aus...d-density.html
Plus, when you look at the core, SF tops DC when it comes to urban density and urban amenities: eat/drinking, streetlife, shopping, etc. SF has almost the population of DC/Arlington combined in an area smaller than DC. The East Bay has very urban areas in Oakland/Berkeley.
So I feel pretty confident in saying the Bay Area feels like the number four population center for somebody seeking major city living.
It’s crazy that Baltimore is being mentioned so much in this topic. It’s more crazy that Baltimore is mostly being brought up by people who think Washington & Baltimore shouldn’t be considered a CSA or referred to as being in the same area….If you have a problem with Washington & Baltimore being associated, stop bringing it up?
People voted for Washington likely because it’s the capital of the US, it is a pretty significant MSA, and NoVa is a fairly strong economic area. Not Baltimore. I’d be shocked if a single person who voted for Washington in this poll factored in Baltimore.
It seems the stereotype of Baltimore in the US is for crime, violence, poverty, corruption and decay. It’s literally the poster child of a crime-ridden city whether right or wrong. Whether that’s fact or myth whether you love or hate Baltimore. I can’t think of a large city with a worse national reputation than Baltimore. Detroit has even turned around their image as a come-back kid.
There’s many ways someone could choose some of these cities. The power of being the US capital for DC, for example. Population and how large an urban area is. If it comes down to population of contiguous urbanity, cohesion, etc. it would definitely be San Francisco over DC IMO. But that wasn’t my determining factor.
It’s crazy that Baltimore is being mentioned so much in this topic. It’s more crazy that Baltimore is mostly being brought up by people who think Washington & Baltimore shouldn’t be considered a CSA or referred to as being in the same area….If you have a problem with Washington & Baltimore being associated, stop bringing it up?
People voted for Washington likely because it’s the capital of the US, it is a pretty significant MSA, and NoVa is a fairly strong economic area. Not Baltimore. I’d be shocked if a single person who voted for Washington in this poll factored in Baltimore.
It seems the stereotype of Baltimore in the US is for crime, violence, poverty, corruption and decay. It’s literally the poster child of a crime-ridden city whether right or wrong. Whether that’s fact or myth whether you love or hate Baltimore. I can’t think of a large city with a worse national reputation than Baltimore. Detroit has even turned around their image as a come-back kid.
There’s many ways someone could choose some of these cities. The power of being the US capital for DC, for example. Population and how large an urban area is. If it comes down to population of contiguous urbanity, cohesion, etc. it would definitely be San Francisco over DC IMO. But that wasn’t my determining factor.
The Wire’ Is Finished, but Baltimore Still Bleeds
The murder rate in America’s deadliest big city is twice that of increasingly violent Mexico.
“ None of the largest 50 American cities approaches Baltimore’s per capita death toll. It rivals Third World metropolises that are plagued—like Baltimore—by gang wars, corrupt politicians and outmatched law-enforcement agencies.”
Article after article - even by local sources meant for locals - is about despair, poverty, “hopeless”, dying, etc. So I pose the question. Why do people think anyone would use Baltimore to prop up Washington? They’re in the same CSA, Baltimore has amenities Washingtonians can enjoy and vice versa. There are synergies between the two and both get certain benefits out of it. That’s fact. Not glory.
It’s crazy that Baltimore is being mentioned so much in this topic. It’s more crazy that Baltimore is mostly being brought up by people who think Washington & Baltimore shouldn’t be considered a CSA or referred to as being in the same area….If you have a problem with Washington & Baltimore being associated, stop bringing it up?
People voted for Washington likely because it’s the capital of the US, it is a pretty significant MSA, and NoVa is a fairly strong economic area. Not Baltimore. I’d be shocked if a single person who voted for Washington in this poll factored in Baltimore.
It seems the stereotype of Baltimore in the US is for crime, violence, poverty, corruption and decay. It’s literally the poster child of a crime-ridden city whether right or wrong. Whether that’s fact or myth whether you love or hate Baltimore. I can’t think of a large city with a worse national reputation than Baltimore. Detroit has even turned around their image as a come-back kid.
There’s many ways someone could choose some of these cities. The power of being the US capital for DC, for example. Population and how large an urban area is. If it comes down to population of contiguous urbanity, cohesion, etc. it would definitely be San Francisco over DC IMO. But that wasn’t my determining factor.
DC has a crime ridden, drug infested suburb then. Any way you slice, you can't mention DC without including Baltimore since this thread has been based mostly on CSAs. You can get even more technical and say that Baltimore is arguably the most important metro in the country. Baltimore is the most dangerous in the most powerful metro. Let that sink in.
DC has a crime ridden, drug infested suburb then. Any way you slice, you can't mention DC without including Baltimore since this thread has been based mostly on CSAs. You can get even more technical and say that Baltimore is arguably the most important metro in the country.
It became about CSA’s because you keep bringing up Baltimore and how Baltimore and Washington are separate and people should stop acting like they’re singular. But you keep bringing up Baltimore.
& Washington may have crime. But it’s fact that None of the 50 largest cities come close in crime to Baltimore. It ranks the worst year after year in nearly every study on poverty, violence, crime and decay. Washington & it’s suburbs vs. Baltimore & it’s suburbs in crime, education, poverty, income, etc is literally on the opposite ends.
How is Washington compared to Baltimore in poverty? In education? In income? How many international flights are at Dulles VS. BWI? How’s DC metro compared to Baltimores mass transit? Where does Baltimore stack up to DC in corruption? How many tourist does DC receive vs. Baltimore? Does Baltimore have anything compared to the White House or Capitol? What’s the GDP compared to DC? How do the two compare in Fortune 500 companies?
In general, where does the Washington MSA usually wind up on rankings when it comes to things such as income and where does Baltimore MSA come? It’d probably be worse if not for bordering the Washington metro area and sucking off some federal agencies on the fringes.
I don’t particularly want to say negative things about Baltimore or point out the obvious because I think it is the product of injustice, systemic racism and other things in addition the city has so much potential and the urban bones are so great and I personally hope Baltimore turns it around.
But you’re constantly inserting Baltimore where it’s not relevant. The most crime ridden, poster child of poverty and urban decay and tragedy and weary struggling large metropolitan area is not needed to “boost” one of the most educated & wealthy metropolitan areas in the US. An area that *BOTH* San Jose MSA & San Francisco MSA also tend to be among the top. Baltimore, even if Located at the border of DC would not at all be the San Jose to Washington’s San Francisco… imagine if San Jose and Baltimore swapped places. Wow… That’d be quite a change to San Francisco & Washington….
Everyone - just going to assume - who voted for Washington were only thinking of the 6 million Washington-Arlington-Alexandria area…. So you can rest easy knowing that Baltimore isn’t being used to boost Washington or make Washington look like it has a bigger ding dong than Chicago.
Used to be in the Bay and now in NY...Exactly. And because the density is way lower in the Bay Area burbs, the commute is actually easier and often takes much less time if you drive. My commute from Sunnyvale to SF takes about the same time as my commute from Midtown to Bushwick by train, even though the direct distance is way longer in the former...
The density between San Bruno and Menlo Park (a distance of 20 miles) is sandwiched between 101 and just west of El Camino Real. Interstate 280 was completed by the late 60’s and if you drive 7 miles south of the San Francisco border (San Bruno) it resembles a rural multi lane highway until you reach Cupertino (distance of 33 miles). That’s really telling on how unique the geography of the Bay Area is.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
