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They may be urban small cities, but they are suburbs of New York City. The thing is they are such immediate fabric of the urban core, but with that population under 250k explains more how they are lumped into "suburb" category. JC has the direct PATH train connection to Manhattan. The criteria to qualify said nothing about regional rail stations.
Jersey City's population is actually above 250K and will probably pass 300K in the next decade or so. But I do generally agree with the premise that they are technically 'suburbs' of NYC even though they are adjacent and not at all classically suburban. When someone pops into the NYC/NJ forum and asks about the best suburbs with quick train commutes, these areas don't come up (instead, they come up for consideration when someone is generally looking at Brooklyn but will be working on the west side of Manhattan). People who live here talk about "moving to the suburbs" when they leave, implying that they don't consider where they live (Hoboken, in this very specific instance) an actual suburb.
Frankly, there are not a lot of US suburbs (that people would universally recognize as suburbs) that fit this criteria, and for most of the past 100 years or so that was absolutely (and unfortunately) by design. The small handful that would qualify would either be the old streetcar suburbs in the legacy eastern cities and some purpose-built TOD-type developments, likely within the city limits of sunbelt cities. Perhaps a few in the PNW may qualify, but I'm not as familiar there.
Yea, there are a few Long Island communities that are pretty good urbanism. I really like Long Beach, NY, Rockville Centre, and Great Neck around the station to name a few. However, I think they get excluded because of how the municipalities get defined and the 50K population cut-off point. The coming of the new LIRR terminal station at Grand Central (which should never have been planned as a terminal station, but rather should have been a through-running station connecting back to Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn) and various associated improvements will greatly increase the frequency of LIRR trains which I think will be a boon to Long Island urban communities.
Some other things that make Bayonne great imo, outside of new development: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6649...!7i8704!8i4352 This view tho https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6636...!7i5376!8i2688 The Tear Drop Memorial and Cruise Terminal
+A full light rail that runs 24/7 every 5-15 minutes with direct service to JC and Grove St. and runs throughout the whole city.
+Great biking/Cycling trails
+Movie set wants to go in Bayonne
+A huge development with 20+ story buildings in planned on the peninsula and down by Constable Hook.
The only thing Bayonne is lacking is a better bar scene, but just hop over to JC/Hoboken for that.
Overall, I give Bayonne a solid 8/10... just need better food/bars, the sidewalks need more TLC and there is some riff raff below 8th st.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb175
Jersey City's population is actually above 250K and will probably pass 300K in the next decade or so. But I do generally agree with the premise that they are technically 'suburbs' of NYC even though they are adjacent and not at all classically suburban. When someone pops into the NYC/NJ forum and asks about the best suburbs with quick train commutes, these areas don't come up (instead, they come up for consideration when someone is generally looking at Brooklyn but will be working on the west side of Manhattan). People who live here talk about "moving to the suburbs" when they leave, implying that they don't consider where they live (Hoboken, in this very specific instance) an actual suburb.
Frankly, there are not a lot of US suburbs (that people would universally recognize as suburbs) that fit this criteria, and for most of the past 100 years or so that was absolutely (and unfortunately) by design. The small handful that would qualify would either be the old streetcar suburbs in the legacy eastern cities and some purpose-built TOD-type developments, likely within the city limits of sunbelt cities. Perhaps a few in the PNW may qualify, but I'm not as familiar there.
True, thanks for that correction. I think the video is pretty clear too that many of those inner core areas Hoboken included are primarily being considered a "suburb" due to not being part of the primary city proper. Even if it's urban nature, or fabric is the equivalent to a neighborhood of the core city, rather than actual "suburbia".
Seriously? I haven’t been in 20 years, but it wasn’t nice back then. It’s pretty industrial too, not at all like Somerville for example.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just curious if it has really changed that much since the early 2000s.
It still has some fairly industrial parts to it, but it hit a pretty decent population growth over the course of the 2010s. It got an Urban Enterprise Zone designation in 2002, part of the Hudson River Waterfront Walkway, part of the Hackensack Riverwalk, some redevelopment of the decommissioned Military Ocean Terminal and additional stations on the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail line so it's had a pretty eventful couple of decades.
I'd like to see the light rail extended to the north shore of Staten Island to at least eastwards to the ferry and Staten Island Ferry terminal and maybe westwards to Union County.
Seriously? I haven’t been in 20 years, but it wasn’t nice back then. It’s pretty industrial too, not at all like Somerville for example.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just curious if it has really changed that much since the early 2000s.
I'm going to go ahead and say not a whole lot has changed there. I mean, it's *fine*. But when you consider how dense it is, and how close to Manhattan it is as the crow flies, it falls down in three MAJOR areas imo:
1. It's dense enough to walk, but there's nowhere to walk to
2. It takes as long to get into Manhattan as some suburbs that are 2x farther out
3. It's not aesthetically nice to look at
All subjective of course. But if you really love diners and vape stores maybe the walking thing is an exaggeration.
I'm going to go ahead and say not a whole lot has changed there. I mean, it's *fine*. But when you consider how dense it is, and how close to Manhattan it is as the crow flies, it falls down in three MAJOR areas imo:
1. It's dense enough to walk, but there's nowhere to walk to
2. It takes as long to get into Manhattan as some suburbs that are 2x farther out
3. It's not aesthetically nice to look at
All subjective of course. But if you really love diners and vape stores maybe the walking thing is an exaggeration.
Bayonne has good Italian-American places and some Latin American eateries. I don't think diners and vape stores is a fair assessment though it has those as well. Jersey City is also a major employment and retail center and the light rail gets you there pretty quickly though I wish it came with a touch greater frequency. There's also supposedly a ferry service that's supposed to launch sometime in the near future.
Bayonne has good Italian-American places and some Latin American eateries. I don't think diners and vape stores is a fair assessment though it has those as well. Jersey City is also a major employment and retail center and the light rail gets you there pretty quickly though I wish it came with a touch greater frequency. There's also supposedly a ferry service that's supposed to launch sometime in the near future.
Oh I know, I was being a bit cheeky. But overall, it's hard to characterize the downtown as very full service relative to what it could support with the density. Forget JC or Hoboken, if you compare it to Union City (for example) there is much less 'going on'. I'm in the big-box section of town somewhat regularly for stock-ups, but never really have a reason to explore the town more fulsomely.
Oh I know, I was being a bit cheeky. But overall, it's hard to characterize the downtown as very full service relative to what it could support with the density. Forget JC or Hoboken, if you compare it to Union City (for example) there is much less 'going on'. I'm in the big-box section of town somewhat regularly for stock-ups, but never really have a reason to explore the town more fulsomely.
There are more like it in Bayonne and the general Bergen Neck peninsula, but I like this place a lot.
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