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I agree though that the “average” American probably won’t find NYC or its environs all that appealing. Chicagoland is one of those places where you can have that “average” American life but yet The City isn’t that far away and housing prices are pretty moderate considering; it’s why Chicagoland is possibly my fav large metro in the US.
I don’t relate much to the NYC lifestyle. Movies and TV set there really don’t feel relatable. I haven’t spent time in the burbs like Long Island and such, but they do tend to feel a bit more hemmed in from what I’ve seen, or are laid out weirdly (looking at you, NJ). Even where I moved in WNY it doesn’t feel quite like an “average” American city.
So that’s the long way of saying, I actually can’t find anything which is worth a premium in NYC from anywhere else.
Man, I love New Jersey suburbs. Not the very suburban, sprawl-y kind, but the network of old towns, cities, and streetcar suburbs in a variety of environments and oftentimes at least somewhat accessible by transit. It very much is different strokes for different folks, so whether or not that premium is worth it is going to vary a lot. I do think there is a weird agglomeration effect in media and notoriety that happens with New York City that Chicago does not have, and I think the OP is right to ask about whether the price premium is worth it. I honestly think for younger people starting out now looking for an urban, walkable expanse, Chicago and Philadelphia are effectively more dynamic because without the aforementioned wealth, well-paid (entry!) job, or lucking out on very cheap rent or have a very specific industry that is very NYC-centric, because NYC at this moment is just too expensive for most people coming in to be worth it for the most part and you can do more exciting things with more free time and effectively greater purchasing power in these other places while still very much having fairly livable, walkable cities without being tied down to car payments. My other suggestion would be to go abroad, because exciting, bustling cities is generally not the US's forte for the last few decades.
People that are fairly average live here, because a lot of people have family roots in the city or work in an industry where the prospects are especially good in the city (and you may just be getting the experience before leaving). However, if you're someone moving into the area without either of those being the draw, then it's a lot more peculiar and about your personal preferences. It was literally eating very nice sushi which isn't available everywhere (though is available in Chicago but in more limited variety) among other interests such as going to see live performances of a specific genre of music, but there were multiples of them and it's the intersection, not union of them that narrows it down. Is this something that everyone in NYC does, no? As already stated, there are other factors that can keep people here or at least mitigate some of the push factors away from NYC. However, there were questions about what *could* be the draw of NYC to justify the premium.
I get what you're saying.
It was just the snooty sounding "If you are an average American, doing average things, and having average interests, New York is probably not for you." preceded by listing out super generic and vanilla interests like eating a high quality version of popular cuisine, listening to a mainstream genre of music, and going out to clubs that made me think they were doing a bit.
It was just the snooty sounding "If you are an average American, doing average things, and having average interests, New York is probably not for you." preceded by listing out super generic and vanilla interests like eating a high quality version of popular cuisine, listening to a mainstream genre of music, and going out to clubs that made me think they were doing a bit.
It makes sense if you're singling out one or two of these things, but I think the intersection where you're trying to go for all of it is different and if you're going specifically for certain parts of it is hard. A high quality version of a popular cuisine is sort of vague and there's a question of what that means. I think having access to high quality Chinese and Japanese cuisine at a certain level does eliminate a lot of US cities. Listening to a mainstream genre of music can be anywhere, but being able to routinely have popular acts perform live is much rarer (and how "routinely" is defined also changes things). Going out to clubs is in a lot of cities, but the variety of this or potentially looking for very specific features in clubs as well as having them run long into night on multiple days of the week isn't something that every city has. At the intersection of these, you start cutting out some of the cities that might have one or two of these things.
For example, LA has a lot of these things, but it's arguably not great for skyscrapers and its nightlife isn't fantastic and certainly not very 24/7. There are other features though, and there still remains the question of how much do you want these things that you're willing and *able* to pay the premium for them, namely in regards to housing prices above almost anything else. Chicago has a lot of what NYC has and usually in fairly good "quality" and quantity, and what I think matters is the personal capacity of time and resources to take advantage of these things might make Chicago a far better experience, even a far better urban experience and for trying a diverse set of great restaurants, going to live concerts, engaging in interesting hobbies and the communities that do so, etc. Again, it depends a lot on someone's personal circumstances and preferences.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-10-2023 at 02:12 PM..
So pretty much what I and another have summed up. NYC if you want the niche aspects or IMO, fan of NYC. Otherwise Chicago for someone like the OP.. who doesn't see the tangible differences.
So with the average cost of rent in NYC approaching $3500, and a comparable place in Chicago costing less than $2000, I, being a prospective NYC renter, wanted to know what things about NYC make it worth living there?
1) What is something you encounter on a daily basis that makes you glad you're paying a premium to live in NYC?
2) What is something you can experience in NYC that you can't get in Chicago?
I'm not counting proximity to nearby places as an experience, because one could easily travel from Chicago to those same places at a lower cost (as compared to living in NYC just to be closer).
I actually prefer Chicago over New York, so the answer for me is - nothing. Nothing about New York makes it worth paying that much more than Chicago.
So pretty much what I and another have summed up. NYC if you want the niche aspects or IMO, fan of NYC. Otherwise Chicago for someone like the OP.. who doesn't see the tangible differences.
No, it's like one thing gets mentioned and then everything else said before gets pushed out of your mind.
There are multiple reasons and arguably strongest is trying to work in certain industries at a certain level--that is likely the strongest draw. It does not necessarily mean someone will succeed in doing so, but it's difficult to make much headway in some industries almost anywhere (or anywhere else) in the US. The other thing mentioned was if you have family or a rather uncommon community, which could be an ethnic community, there and not elsewhere, and there are some really rare communities in there. Is that niche? Yea, to some extent it is, but again, the main thing is that there's a joining of a *lot* of different niches in NYC because that dense agglomeration makes such possible. It is not pretty much what you and "another" whichever person you think it is have just summed up. This doesn't mean that Chicago or NYC are going to work better for the OP. It means the OP should consider more details of what their personal circumstances and interests are. It may be that Chicago is a better fit. It may be that even the urban parts of Chicago and the price premium of that over other cities is also not desirable to the OP, but it would seem possible that some kind of urban qualities and environments would have some appeal to the OP, because they haven't stated any other particular reason to compare the two.
I'm more confused on the idea that average or normal people don't live in NYC. Probably most New Yorkers have the same generic and conventional lifestyle that everyone else does. They commute to their 40 hour jobs, they go shopping, they go out to eat somewhat frequently, and they go out to bars/clubs, they are in monogamous relationships, they have a group of friends that they hang with, etc...
Like the poster was talking about their supposedly niche interests, and then it was literally just eating sushi and listening to a very mainstream genre of music.
The whole post to me just read like poking fun at the "New Yorker desperate to be different from everyone else" stereotype.
It's true that this very thread topic has become somewhat of a national inside joke/meme, that is "New Yorkers" proudly announcing their unique and exclusive urban exploits in a manner reminiscent of Patrick Bateman, only to unwittingly just list totally mundane stuff that you probably could do in Phoenix or Akron.
No, it's like one thing gets mentioned and then everything else said before gets pushed out of your mind.
There are multiple reasons and arguably strongest is trying to work in certain industries at a certain level--that is likely the strongest draw. It does not necessarily mean someone will succeed in doing so, but it's difficult to make much headway in some industries almost anywhere (or anywhere else) in the US. The other thing mentioned was if you have family or a rather uncommon community, which could be an ethnic community, there and not elsewhere, and there are some really rare communities in there. Is that niche? Yea, to some extent it is, but again, the main thing is that there's a joining of a *lot* of different niches in NYC because that dense agglomeration makes such possible. It is not pretty much what you and "another" whichever person you think it is have just summed up. This doesn't mean that Chicago or NYC are going to work better for the OP. It means the OP should consider more details of what their personal circumstances and interests are. It may be that Chicago is a better fit. It may be that even the urban parts of Chicago and the price premium of that over other cities is also not desirable to the OP, but it would seem possible that some kind of urban qualities and environments would have some appeal to the OP, because they haven't stated any other particular reason to compare the two.
Look I agree 100% with your points, you don't need to keep wasting energy to write essays proving your point.
Another poster wrote early on in the third post of this thread that if OP had to ask if NYC is worth the premium then it probably isn't for them.
In most cases if you're searching for that niche that really only exists in NYC then you wouldn't need to ask.
OP, this is not something that other people, especially strangers on the internet, can answer for you. It’s a decision that you’ll have to make for yourself. My advice is to consider how much you’ll be earning in whatever it is that you do in NYC (where most skilled jobs tend to pay more) vs. Chicago, combined with your rent or living situation. A lot of people stay in NYC mainly for the job opportunities alone actually. For example if you’re pursuing a career in Wall Street, Broadway, Media, or some heavily NYC-dominated industry, the extra cost of living may be worth it for you. That’s your decision to make.
If you work a more “regular” job (for lack of better words), don’t earn a lot, and have no ties to NYC or the tri-state (friends/family/etc), maybe Chicago is the better match for you?
I can answer your question from my own personal reasons. The biggest reason I stay here is because I’m from here and most of my closest friends/family are here or nearby. To me that’s worth the extra cost. I’m also way too spoiled with the convenience of the city and yes, I have plenty of my own niches too. I could probably satisfy most or all of them in Chicago I’m sure, but very likely with less quantity/convenience/options than here. On the note of being spoiled, obviously I love large cities, and I love living in the largest city in the country.
Chicago is a very large city as well, but to put the scale difference of these 2 cities into perspective, Brooklyn alone has roughly the same population as the entire city of Chicago. Although Chicago is probably still the next closest classically-urban experience in the country. Quality wise, I would be willing to bet that Chicago can compete with almost anything NYC has to offer, but NYC will have a higher quantity of just about anything. I’m sure Chicago is plenty large enough for most people though, and many people might think NYC’s scale is too overwhelming whereas Chicago is more manageable.
Another thing to consider is location. Maybe location is important to you? Do you want to be on the ocean, or a lake? Are colder longer winters in Chicago OK for you? I personally love living on the coast, and the beach has always been a part of my life.
Some people are mocking the posters mentioning the late night convenience as another specific niche, but let me tell you as somebody that works overnights, and during my time off has most of my social life happen at night: it’s a real thing, and it’s extremely important to those of us that rely on it, especially when it comes to transit! Most people probably don’t need the 24/7 convenience, and that’s fine. But to some people (like me) it’s a necessity. Chicago does go later than most places in the US anyway, it’s not like it’s some sleepy town, so it should not be an issue for most people.
Those are some of my reasons, but there’s no right or wrong answer. This is something that 100% depends on the individual and their needs, occupation, hobbies, and … entire life, lol.
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