Best Large Town/Small City of the Northeast (crime, place, bigger)

[btownboss4]

I really do like Manchester. The downtown area is pretty vibrant, it has a decent arts scene. A minor league Baseball team, and imo has the best access for day trips, lakes, mountains, Boston, the ocean all within about an hour.

It also unlike most places in such a nice location, is not overwhelmed by tourists at all.

Concord, which is more rustic is kind of similar and also not overrun by tourists but further from the coast, closer to the mountains

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

I really do like Manchester. The downtown area is pretty vibrant, it has a decent arts scene. A minor league Baseball team, and imo has the best access for day trips, lakes, mountains, Boston, the ocean all within about an hour.

It also unlike most places in such a nice location, is not overwhelmed by tourists at all.

Concord, which is more rustic is kind of similar and also not overrun by tourists but further from the coast, closer to the mountains

What cities would you say are overrun by tourists? Burlington & Portland? For Burlington, Church Street is definitely catered to tourists, but I think the college town vibe is what is more omnipresent in the city. One can also escape this easily two miles up the road in Winooski as it has an interesting downtown with more of a locals vibe. There are also local hangouts, restaurants, and coffee shops peppered around corners of the Old North End. The one thing that's missing for me here is easy access to the ocean. Lakes and mountains are pretty well covered right in its own backyard.

I like Portsmouth a lot and wouldn't mind living there, but I can see how one would think its downtown is overrun by tourists.

I pass by Manchester on I-93 often, though I am interested in checking out the downtown and exploring the city to see what I've missed. One thing I'm aware of is unlike other milltowns, it's not derelict or abandoned and there's been a good amount of restoration in the Amoskeog Mills.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by Champ le monstre du lac

What cities would you say are overrun by tourists? Burlington & Portland? For Burlington, Church Street is definitely catered to tourists, but I think the college town vibe is what is more omnipresent in the city. One can also escape this easily two miles up the road in Winooski as it has an interesting downtown with more of a locals vibe. There are also local hangouts, restaurants, and coffee shops peppered around corners of the Old North End. The one thing that's missing for me here is easy access to the ocean. Lakes and mountains are pretty well covered right in its own backyard.

I like Portsmouth a lot and wouldn't mind living there, but I can see how one would think its downtown is overrun by tourists.

I pass by Manchester on I-93 often, though I am interested in checking out the downtown and exploring the city to see what I've missed. One thing I'm aware of is unlike other milltowns, it's not derelict or abandoned and there's been a good amount of restoration in the Amoskeog Mills.

Portsmouth, Portland, Camden, ME, Newport, Laconia and I’d say Burlington

People exaggerate Mew England touristy nature. For Manchester, Augusta, Bangor, Pittsfield, Concord, even some smaller towns like Rutland, Keene, Lebanon, are in no way overrun by tourists.

Manchester is really only ~1 hour from like Hampton Beach.

[MarketStEl]

I scored myself a one-year honorary membership in the Philadelphia chapter of the Society of Architectural Historians for having written this sentence here on C-D, which the SAH used to promote its tour of historic architecture in the city below:

"Lancaster has to be the coolest small city in the entire Mid-Atlantic region, if not the entire Northeast."

I stand by that sentence even now (and should join the Philly Chapter of the SAH as a paying member).

I would still put it at the top of the list of small core cities the OP put together.

Manchester, New Hampshire's largest city, is an interesting place, but its downtown IMO loses charm points to places like Portsmouth, Portland, Burlington, Annapolis, and Lancaster.

It's a shame that Easton, the smallest of the three core cities of the Lehigh Valley MSA (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton) is too small for inclusion in this discussion (the Northampton County seat has only 28k residents), because — having been there now — I'd say that it too punches well above its weight, especially on the fine dining tip, and it has an absolutely gorgeous downtown nestled between two steep hills as well.

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Portsmouth, Portland, Camden, ME, Newport, Laconia and I’d say Burlington

People exaggerate Mew England touristy nature.

I don't think Burlington is exaggerated on its accolades for nature. The sunset views across Lake Champlain looking at the Adirondacks shaded in purple from the downtown waterfront are pretty awesome and unmatched in New England. The bike trails run parallel to the lakeshore for miles all the way up to the islands. It has the easiest mountain access of any city in New England. If one thinks its too touristy, then that's a fair enough point.

Originally Posted by btownboss4

For Manchester, Augusta, Bangor, Pittsfield, Concord, even some smaller towns like Rutland, Keene, Lebanon, are in no way overrun by tourists.

I'd add New London, CT to this list. It's gritty as all get out, but also very interesting with some nice architecture in spots, attractive beaches nearby, and one of the best deep water harbors in all of New England. I do like Bangor. I spent a night there last summer enroute to Acadia NP and enjoyed walking around and dining out in its downtown. Augusta has a pretty crappy downtown with a lot of vacancies. Not a very good state capital. I'm kinda neutral on Concord and Keene. People in Vermont love to dump on Rutland, it's the state's whipping boy.

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Manchester is really only ~1 hour from like Hampton Beach.

I'd agree, Manchester has a very optimal location as a launchpad for access to all of New England's best features.

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It's a shame that Easton, the smallest of the three core cities of the Lehigh Valley MSA (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton) is too small for inclusion in this discussion (the Northampton County seat has only 28k residents), because — having been there now — I'd say that it too punches well above its weight, especially on the fine dining tip, and it has an absolutely gorgeous downtown nestled between two steep hills as well.

I don't think it's strictly excluded as the OP even stated the criteria was subjective and the thread title has "big town" in it of which perhaps Easton fits that role. I'd guess the OP was weeding out the medium metro cities like Hartford, Worcester, Providence, and Albany to keep focus on places on the scale cities and metros like Lancaster, which was a pretty cool thread idea since the medium metros have already been pretty well covered here before.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Portsmouth, Portland, Camden, ME, Newport, Laconia and I’d say Burlington

People exaggerate Mew England touristy nature. For Manchester, Augusta, Bangor, Pittsfield, Concord, even some smaller towns like Rutland, Keene, Lebanon, are in no way overrun by tourists.

Manchester is really only ~1 hour from like Hampton Beach.

I think some New England cities and towns have become some degree of a caricature of themselves as a result of the tourism. It's a weird contradiction. Some places that have the classic "New England Charm" have become become almost the Disney World versions of themselves with a proliferation of overpriced/mediocre restaurants, ice cream shops, tourist trap chain retail (i.e. FatFace, Life is Good, etc.), and the same redundant souvenir and t-shirt shops you can find anywhere else.

They all still have their lovely settings and their historic architecture, so they'll never be completely devoid of character, and they're still clearly worth visiting. But they've lost a good deal of it as they've increasingly catered to the touristy crowd. There are a ton of cities/towns in New England that are firmly in this camp or are trending this way and instead of typing out a list, you can probably just check out the list of SeaBags retail locations. Places like Portland, Portsmouth, Newport, Burlington, etc. are big enough to retain pockets that aren't overtly touristy, but it's a struggle. We're in Portland several times per year and rarely spend much time in the Old Port; but the East End, the breweries along Industrial Way, Bayside, etc. still have some character places. Burlington isn't as bad to me. For one, I think the natural setting is a bigger piece of the equation than the other cities/towns (the city is on a hill overlooking the lake and the Adirondacks) and I think having 10-12,000 students in town helps keep it a bit more balanced.

Lots of places are still under the radar though. I love Keene, Concord, Bangor, Montpelier, etc. (and any number of small towns and villages) in Northern New England. I think New Bedford, New Haven, Warren RI, New London, Hudson MA, etc. all still have great appeal and manage to fly under the radar. So it's not all of New England. But many of the "known" towns are off of my radar except in their off seasons.

[ion475]

Originally Posted by manitopiaaa

Frederick is my favorite in the DMV, then Alexandria (Old Town), then Annapolis (the historic urban portion is in that 50-100k population band)

Too bad Frederick wouldn't qualify under the OP's criterion (being part of DC MSA), but it's much nicer than Hagerstown anyway. Fredericksburg VA would be another one that would not qualify using MSA criterion but would if the OP is using urban areas instead. Both I would say are more true "satellite" of DC than Hagerstown anyway.

Originally Posted by eschaton

Hagerstown: It has a nice, well-preserved downtown with some measure of a dining/shopping scene. Still, it's on the fringes of Appalachia, and does have something of a dying mill town vibe in places. Still, I think it has a lot of charm, and is well positioned just outside of the growth zone of the DC metro - I could easily see it becoming a thriving satellite city.

Central Hagerstown is actually not that great outside of the few blocks in your streetview. QOL is not all that great (it does have the dirt bike/ATV problems that B'more and Philly has).

That being said it does have some good amenities like Discovery Station and Maryland Theatre in downtown, and for railroad bluff it has not one but two "museum" (The Roundhouse Museum and the display in City Park).

As for being a satellite city, maybe, just maybe, if they ever extend MARC there it could become a better lower cost alternative to places like Frederick (which, TBH, is getting pricy). As of right now it does have commuter bus down to Shady Grove Metro Station for connection to rest of DC, but given Hagerstown former status as "hub city" better railroad connection would do wonder.

BTW, agree on your assessment of Lancaster - it has its not so great area but overall definitely more thriving than, let say, York PA. Plus there are gems in the surrounding area (Lititz being the obvious one).

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I scored myself a one-year honorary membership in the Philadelphia chapter of the Society of Architectural Historians for having written this sentence here on C-D, which the SAH used to promote its tour of historic architecture in the city below:

"Lancaster has to be the coolest small city in the entire Mid-Atlantic region, if not the entire Northeast."

I stand by that sentence even now (and should join the Philly Chapter of the SAH as a paying member).

I would still put it at the top of the list of small core cities the OP put together.

Manchester, New Hampshire's largest city, is an interesting place, but its downtown IMO loses charm points to places like Portsmouth, Portland, Burlington, Annapolis, and Lancaster.

It's a shame that Easton, the smallest of the three core cities of the Lehigh Valley MSA (Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton) is too small for inclusion in this discussion (the Northampton County seat has only 28k residents), because — having been there now — I'd say that it too punches well above its weight, especially on the fine dining tip, and it has an absolutely gorgeous downtown nestled between two steep hills as well.

I second Easton, which has a very walkable Downtown and nice, older architecture. For families, it also has the Crayola Experience.

[kyle19125]

No love at all for Providence? It has a well-preserved historical past, a thriving downtown area anchored by the Ivy League's Brown University and a great restaurant scene.