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No disagreement there, but how many people are really moving to NYC and Boston to hike in Vermont once a year? As far as the eastern US goes I think the only areas people really move to for the natural amenities are like, western NC/east TN, northern New England, and like Florida if you count the warm weather as an amenity.
I drove from Boston to a ski resort every winter weekend of my life. I know lots of New Yorkers who do it. My friend Jeff was in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and walked down a bajillion flights of stairs to get out of the tower before it collapsed. He was my neighbor at Killington from 1998 until two years ago when I sold. Debbie used to live in Manhattan and take commuter rail to where she kept her car and drove to Killington from there every weekend. That was my lifestyle my whole life. Ski in the winter and ocean in the summer. I know lots of people in NYC and Boston with that lifestyle.
North Conway is the Northeastern Whites? The Southernmost 4,000 footers are like 2hrs away? Killington, the Closest Vermont 4000 footer is further than The Kinsmans or Flume
Plus Vermont 4000 footers are few and far between. NH has like a dozen crunched up right off 93
The Green Mountains from Killington northwards average at least 225” of snow. Stowe 300”. Jay Peak routinely breaks 300” and is more like 350”. In New Hampshire, Wildcat might break 200” occasionally but most of the ski areas are more like 125”. The skiing is boring groomed man made. There is almost no tree skiing. With such low snowfall, the trails in New Hampshire are cut on intermediate terrain because anything steeper will never be open on natural snow. It’s not challenging at all.
As much as it pains me to say it Chicago has certainly suffered a relative cultural decline in my conscious life. In the late 80s/early 90s Chicago had a massive national prominence. It was home to the world's tallest building and busiest airport. Chicago sports loomed huge nationally you had Jordan and the Bulls, Mike Ditka and Da Bears, it still has 2 MLB teams, but baseball was a far bigger deal back then. In TV and movies, you had all the John Hughes movies/Adventures in Baby Sitting, lots of network TV shows set in Chicago. ER would get 30 million viewers. Oprah and many of the day time talk shows were based there. Jessie Jackson was a huge national presence. WGN was a national TV network that spread Chicago culture far and wide. The Tribune was a nationally renowned newspaper. Siskel and Ebert were the most important film critics.
Economically, Chicago was the heart of then more important Great Lakes industrial economy. The Sunbelt MSAs were far smaller and Silicon Valley was just a niche center of Chip manufacturing. NYC/Boston/SF hadn't undergone their economic and cultural transformations into elite yuppie white collar centers of affluence.
From an urbanism perspective, in the early 90s Chicago was one of the very few cities (NYC, SF maybe Boston) that had managed to maintain a middle class/affluent vibrant urban center. There wewas far less immigration/diversity then, so Chicago was more notable nationally as a melting pot. Chicago's crime was pretty bad and probably worse than now. But it was bad everywhere so Chicago didn't really standout on the downside like it does today. It had far less murders than NYC.
So although Chicago has in many ways improved, grown it's downtown core and reinvented its economy, it feels less prominent nationally. It's still the 3rd largest city, but dosent loom over the next 5 or so the way it used to. Frankly, it just feels more lost in the shuffle nationally.
Perfectly stated. The last couple sentences sum it up perfectly.
The Green Mountains from Killington northwards average at least 225” of snow. Stowe 300”. Jay Peak routinely breaks 300” and is more like 350”. In New Hampshire, Wildcat might break 200” occasionally but most of the ski areas are more like 125”. The skiing is boring groomed man made. There is almost no tree skiing. With such low snowfall, the trails in New Hampshire are cut on intermediate terrain because anything steeper will never be open on natural snow. It’s not challenging at all.
Oprah, Belushi, etc., did not Chicago make. Stars are moving out of LA, as well, does that mean it's lost relevance? Didn't think so. As far as the real things a city is rated by (business, etc.), Chicago is still an Alpha city. I hope I don't have to say that again. Daytime talk shows don't have as much relevance as finance, etc. ER? Seriously?
Television and movies are a major cultural forces. I certainly didn't say it was the only reason. Sure you have Chicago PD and the spin offs, the Obama's (who mostly don't live there. But on most measures of cultural influence, consciousness I think it's fair to say Chicago has lost relative influence. You can dismiss Oprah, but she was putting millions of eyeballs on Chicago everyday.
I also cited more traditional economic factors where Chicago has also lost ground. It's certainly smaller as a share of national population/GDP. It has lost its big banks, its not a major city for VC/startups.
I'm not trying to knock Chicago. I like it. But, I have to admit it had lost ground relative to other major cities.
Oprah, Belushi, etc., did not Chicago make. Stars are moving out of LA, as well, does that mean it's lost relevance? Didn't think so. As far as the real things a city is rated by (business, etc.), Chicago is still an Alpha city. I hope I don't have to say that again. Daytime talk shows don't have as much relevance as finance, etc. ER? Seriously?
Well cultural cache usually follows economic cache. On that note, Chicago MSA's GDP grew 90% over the last two decades. The US's grew 120% during that span. A place like Dallas grew even faster 160%. Chicago is still the 3rd largest city in the US and has an urban footprint second to only NYC. But it got there because of things that happened several generations ago. It's losing ground at this point, and certainly is not as relevant as it was when I was younger.
San Francisco comes to mind as the largest boom-bust story of the 21st Century. Tech started moving their in the 80s, and it really exploded with start-ups from 2005-2020, but the local and state Government completely destroyed it. Its the fastest declining city in terms of values in the country.
Grown in Relevance: Tampa, Charlotte, Washington DC, Boston, Miami, Austin, Orlando, Raleigh
Stayed the Same: New York City, San Antonio, Los Angeles, San Francisco (SF grew economically sure, but SF was everywhere in the 90s-00s for its culture etc)
*Dropper in Relevance, relative to other cities, but still is in the same position as before*: Chicago
Dropped in Relevance: Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore, Philadelphia
So although Chicago has in many ways improved, grown it's downtown core and reinvented its economy, it feels less prominent nationally. It's still the 3rd largest city, but dosent loom over the next 5 or so the way it used to. Frankly, it just feels more lost in the shuffle nationally.
Agreed here.
Chicago was flying high in terms of cultural, economic and overall general impact and relevance in the US in the 80s and 90s.
But today, it has lost a lot of that overall shine--despite being a powerhouse city still and having an incredible downtown and thriving economy.
As you mentioned, many cities have been nipping at Chicago's heels, and a lot are close to taking a swing at its lead. Not yet, none are there, but many will be close and a couple passing it, in the next 20-30 years.
Namely, Houston (city population and metro), Dallas/Ft Worth (metro, with city of Dallas close), and possibly Atlanta metro and Miami metro passing Chicago.
Speaking of fading, REI just moved out of Portland proper (in Pearl). If you can't even retain REI and you're in the PNW, you got problems. Nordstrom is going to be next.
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