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Interesting, I always hear East Texas and Houston in the same breath.
That must be extremely new. Anybody that grew up in Texas and spent time in school would never place Houston and East Texas in the same region due to East Texas have a different culture than Houston. It's not that Houston is urban either. Houston has layers that added to what it is now.
That map also has the Golden Triangle in East Texas. It is in East Texas but the actual triangle isn't like most of East Texas.
Denver has the advantage where people are deciding what counts as mountain west based on whether or not it’s influenced by Denver. Rather than deciding whether or not Denver experts influence over the mountain west.
MT, UT, CO, NM, ID, WY are just vastly different and don’t share a common major city like New England does.
Which is inconvenient so they just kinda pretend ID, NM and UT don’t actually count.
And suddenly if you limit it to the front range, Denver Wins (even that’s debatably)
No one is deciding what's in the region. Las Vegas has never been described as mountain west in my 13 years on CD and 5 years in Denver. Same as Boise. New Mexico is not vastly different at all. Wyoming isn't different either. Small town Colorado and Wyoming might as well be the same.
That must be extremely new. Anybody that grew up in Texas and spent time in school would never place Houston and East Texas in the same region due to East Texas have a different culture than Houston. It's not that Houston is urban either. Houston has layers that added to what it is now.
That map also has the Golden Triangle in East Texas. It is in East Texas but the actual triangle isn't like most of East Texas.
I remember you when I lived in Houston, I considered Houston East Texas but realize it's a bit different than Tyler. The differences are pretty similar to Lake Charles and Shreveport.
I thought long and hard about this. I think a case can be made for any of the 3 and I initially leaned Denver. So here's my criteria. If I removed each city from it's region, what happens:
Denver - Such a dominant city in the region. However, if you removed Denver, I think CS would take over.
Boston- To me, Providence would be able to be the next Boston. And NE is still close to NYC and Philly.
Atlanta - who takes over as capital of the south? Augusta? Raleigh? Those cities are pretty far from Atlanta.
Atlanta - who takes over as capital of the south? Augusta? Raleigh? Those cities are pretty far from Atlanta.
If Providence can be the new Boston, then Charlotte can easily be the new Atlanta.
I also thought Providence was out of scope of the thread for being linked to Boston by commuter rail. How much of these cities’ suburbs are tied to them? Is “Boston” here everything within I-495?
Lastly, I can’t imagine saying ATL is not in the Deep South. Why is it everyone in the south seemingly wants to be less associated with being in the south?
Deep South =/= South
And the argument has been made on this forum before. I've even argued as much concerning Atlanta elsewhere. Nemean laid it out pretty concisely.
If Providence can be the new Boston, then Charlotte can easily be the new Atlanta.
I also thought Providence was out of scope of the thread for being linked to Boston by commuter rail. How much of these cities’ suburbs are tied to them? Is “Boston” here everything within I-495?
Charlotte is not centralized in the American South. Charlotte is the Capital of the Carolinas - one of the regions of the American South.
There is a clear geographical reason, besides being "central-ish," why Atlanta became what it is.
The only cities centralized enough to be the Capital of the American South are Atlanta, Macon, Columbus (GA), Montgomery, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Chattanooga. And Atlanta already beats them all with its unique geographic positioning.
Charlotte is not centralized in the American South. Charlotte is the Capital of the Carolinas - one of the regions of the American South.
There is a clear geographical reason, besides being "central-ish," why Atlanta became what it is.
The only cities centralized enough to be the Capital of the American South are Atlanta, Macon, Columbus (GA), Montgomery, Birmingham, Huntsville, and Chattanooga. And Atlanta already beats them all with its unique geographic positioning.
I think the concept of "Capital of the South" is a bit of antiquated concept. It's similar to outsized view of New England's population compared to other areas by those not paying attention to the numbers. The South is a massive region, and having a "cultural capital" of a region so large would really only make sense if the population was pretty small. The population of New England is about 15.1 million. Texas is almost double that, and Florida is well above that. The Carolinas is 15.982 million, which is just a touch behind GA+AL's 15.987 million. VA+DC+MD is 15.5 million (not even throwing in Delaware). TN+KY is a bit behind at 11.56 and LA+AR+MS is 10.6.
This isn't like the northeast either, where the most populous area is in the center and population peters out away from it. There's a clear break in population around the Alabama/Mississippi border that follows northward though Tennessee and Kentucky, with the Gulf Coast being the only connection.
It feels like it'd be be better to split the south as VA, NC, KY, TN, SC, GA, AL + FL (FL possibly being split off) and TX, OK, AR, LA + MS. Memphis (and to a much lesser extent Paducah) would be the only city that'd feel in the wrong area by this split.
I think the concept of "Capital of the South" is a bit of antiquated concept. It's similar to outsized view of New England's population compared to other areas by those not paying attention to the numbers. The South is a massive region, and having a "cultural capital" of a region so large would really only make sense if the population was pretty small. The population of New England is about 15.1 million. Texas is almost double that, and Florida is well above that. The Carolinas is 15.982 million, which is just a touch behind GA+AL's 15.987 million. VA+DC+MD is 15.5 million (not even throwing in Delaware). TN+KY is a bit behind at 11.56 and LA+AR+MS is 10.6.
This isn't like the northeast either, where the most populous area is in the center and population peters out away from it. There's a clear break in population around the Alabama/Mississippi border that follows northward though Tennessee and Kentucky, with the Gulf Coast being the only connection.
It feels like it'd be be better to split the south as VA, NC, KY, TN, SC, GA, AL + FL (FL possibly being split off) and TX, OK, AR, LA + MS. Memphis (and to a much lesser extent Paducah) would be the only city that'd feel in the wrong area by this split.
The Capital of the American South is not an outdated concept.
Atlanta is the Capital of the American South. See my post and Gaylord’s post above.
Last edited by aries4118; 08-14-2023 at 03:14 PM..
I thought long and hard about this. I think a case can be made for any of the 3 and I initially leaned Denver. So here's my criteria. If I removed each city from it's region, what happens:
Denver - Such a dominant city in the region. However, if you removed Denver, I think CS would take over.
Boston- To me, Providence would be able to be the next Boston. And NE is still close to NYC and Philly.
Atlanta - who takes over as capital of the south? Augusta? Raleigh? Those cities are pretty far from Atlanta.
I vote Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Shudra
If Providence can be the new Boston, then Charlotte can easily be the new Atlanta.
I also thought Providence was out of scope of the thread for being linked to Boston by commuter rail. How much of these cities’ suburbs are tied to them? Is “Boston” here everything within I-495?
these massive oversights make my head hurt...
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