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What downtowns have been slowest to recover and bounce back in the US?
Maybe for cities over 1 million metro area? I'd think it hit certain ones a lot harder than others--and many are still reeling with lack of foot traffic, businesses still closed and workers no longer downtown.
What are your thoughts? From what I've heard and read--here are a few that are slow to recover, but I'm hoping bounce back faster--
*Phoenix
*Houston
*Dallas
*Kansas City
*Indianapolis
*Cleveland
*St Louis
*Louisville, KY
*Minneapolis
New York City - it was so outsized compared to the rest before the pandemic, and it's recovered relatively well. Midtown with its offices have definitely suffered a bit, but again, it was so packed to begin with that it's still a titan. Meanwhile, Hudson Yards development kept going and while perhaps not as full as originally intended, it's still quite a bit of activity.
Chicago - Strong concentration of institutions there; office vacancies are still pretty high, but it had already shifted towards a lot more residential in the past couple of decades prior to the pandemic and had essentially expanded it out in all directions save for the lake especially the burgeoning west loop. It gets a lot of points for urban planning though as just one of the best looking downtowns around with a lot of engineering marvels and just altogether a great and very distinctive downtown
Philadelphia - The downtown I have the most post pandemic experience with seemed absolutely booming this past summer; while Center City is a major office center, it was also very residential, tourism and nightlife centered before the pandemic and seemed to have retained this and it's fantastic.
Montreal - Similar to Philadelphia above though I think had stronger weight on office jobs? I haven't been to Canada since the pandemic though. I think given the emphasis poster seems to put on livability and liveliness, Montreal's downtown maybe gets ahead of Toronto's for now?
Toronto - It supposedly has been hit harder according to that index and it certainly is a major office center so gets hit with that which is why I put it lower. Prior to the pandemic, I might have put this just below Chicago.
Boston - My most recent experience outside of NYC with and it seemed to be doing fairly well. However, the nightlife component of it isn't great nor is the diversity and options downtown particularly great though that held before the pandemic as well; also MBTA seems to be going through some wild screw ups including within downtown.
San Francisco - Despite being low on the recovery index and high on office concentrations downtown, SF was so outsized that I think it still ranks really high up there. Prior to the pandemic, I probably would have put this above Philadelphia, Montreal, and Boston. I have read that parts of downtown have been getting cleaned up from their pandemic era nadir, and so with the fairly intense built density of San Francisco and the major project of Caltrain electrification where it runs almost at rapid transit levels of service and thus can bring in a large and often wealthy population to and from downtown, I think San Francisco will probably go back up pretty rapidly in the coming years
DC - Seems to have made a decent recovery, but haven't been there since last year; also as a more buttoned-up town, is it wrong to assume that DC employers may be more aggressive with return to office work? DC's downtown was lively from tourists, but not as bustling at night which might have to do with the wide streets and perhaps many still sparsely populated offices. DC's downtown does deserve points for being very distinctive though, so it's hard for me to figure out where to place it on the list.
Los Angeles - Downtown LA also did a large residential shift in the last couple of decades and now has its through-running light rail tunnel underground (still needs to up frequency though which is supposedly coming pretty soon) and has made good recent efforts to clean up its transit system; wasn't there for that opening, but was there fairly recently and large parts of downtown LA were bustling though skid row is still pretty rough.
Vancouver - Supposedly was hit hard by the pandemic, but that high residential component probably still has it doing pretty well.
Seattle - Hard hit like SF and was smaller and less bustling to begin with; maybe tie with Vancouver though because nightlife in Vancouver seems really limited.
If we were doing secondary downtowns, I'd probably put downtown Brooklyn between Chicago and Philadelphia and Long Island City right behind downtown DC.
Good List, but I would change a few things...
I would drop Philly to about DC. I have been there ~6 times in the past year, and outside a few rumbling sin Center City it was kind of dead everywhere.
I would also put Brooklyn between Montreal and Chicago.
LIC?? Wouldn't even make this list.
I am visiting Chicago and DC soon, so I can't wait to see what they are like.
My Rankings this year:
1. New York City (Below 59th Street)
2. Chicago (The Loop, Mag Mile, and the adjacent neighborhoods)
-Brooklyn (Downtown Brooklyn and abutting neighborhoods)
3. Montreal (Downtown)
4. Boston (Downtown, North End, Seaport, Back Bay and adjacent neighborhoods)
5. Philadelphia (Center City, Rittenhouse, University City, and Adjacent neighborhoods)
-Jersey City/Hoboken (Hoboken, Newport, Grove Street, Oldtown)
6. Charlotte
-Stamford, CT-
7. Raleigh
8. Hartford
9. Albany NY
10. Portsmouth NH
I would drop Philly to about DC. I have been there ~6 times in the past year, and outside a few rumbling sin Center City it was kind of dead everywhere.
I would also put Brooklyn between Montreal and Chicago.
LIC?? Wouldn't even make this list.
I am visiting Chicago and DC soon, so I can't wait to see what they are like.
My Rankings this year:
1. New York City (Below 59th Street)
2. Chicago (The Loop, Mag Mile, and the adjacent neighborhoods)
-Brooklyn (Downtown Brooklyn and abutting neighborhoods)
3. Montreal (Downtown)
4. Boston (Downtown, North End, Seaport, Back Bay and adjacent neighborhoods)
5. Philadelphia (Center City, Rittenhouse, University City, and Adjacent neighborhoods)
-Jersey City/Hoboken (Hoboken, Newport, Grove Street, Oldtown)
6. Charlotte
-Stamford, CT-
7. Raleigh
8. Hartford
9. Albany NY
10. Portsmouth NH
Can't wait to see where DC/Arlington falls...
That's interesting! I think because I haven't been doing long-term stays in any of these places aside from NYC this year, all I get instead is snippets. With those snippets, the few times I've been in Philadelphia seemed positively packed while that of Boston and DC were both tamer though DC is a weird one. I am for the most part talking about downtown / greater downtown area if that makes a difference.
Chicago, Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco, Vancouver, and Seattle on my list were just guesses from reading about them and from past, pre-pandemic experiences.
Yea, I agree that I put LIC a bit too high, but I do think it's not too far off. Within Queens, I think downtown Flushing and the Jackson Heights/Elmhurst border are more bustling but I'm not sure if they should be considered secondary downtowns though I suppose downtown Flushing just by dint of its name makes sense. That I'd certainly rank above LIC if part of the conversation.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-31-2023 at 08:10 AM..
That's interesting! I think because I haven't been doing long-term stays in any of these places aside from NYC this year, all I get instead is snippets. With those snippets, the few times I've been in Philadelphia seemed positively packed while that of Boston and DC were both tamer though DC is a weird one. I am for the most part talking about downtown / greater downtown area if that makes a difference.
Chicago, Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco, Vancouver, and Seattle on my list were just guesses from reading about them and from past, pre-pandemic experiences.
Yea, I agree that I put LIC a bit too high, but I do think it's not too far off. Within Queens, I think downtown Flushing and the Jackson Heights/Elmhurst border are more bustling but I'm not sure if they should be considered secondary downtowns though I suppose downtown Flushing just by dint of its name makes sense. That I'd certainly rank above LIC if part of the conversation.
Yeah I agree. Queens is crazy busy. Especially the areas you said. Corona is probably one of the busiest neighborhoods that has significant low rise residential I have ever seen. Great working class neighborhoods. Flushing is madness.
Also, unrelated to this reply, but someone will point this out, I want to make it clear I am not ranking Portsmouth NH as the 10th most vibrant Downtown. It was just the 10th of the 10 downtowns I have visited this year lol. I realized I did not make that clear whatsoever, but yeah dead dead.
That's interesting! I think because I haven't been doing long-term stays in any of these places aside from NYC this year, all I get instead is snippets. With those snippets, the few times I've been in Philadelphia seemed positively packed while that of Boston and DC were both tamer though DC is a weird one. I am for the most part talking about downtown / greater downtown area if that makes a difference.
Chicago, Montreal, Toronto, San Francisco, Vancouver, and Seattle on my list were just guesses from reading about them and from past, pre-pandemic experiences.
Yea, I agree that I put LIC a bit too high, but I do think it's not too far off. Within Queens, I think downtown Flushing and the Jackson Heights/Elmhurst border are more bustling but I'm not sure if they should be considered secondary downtowns though I suppose downtown Flushing just by dint of its name makes sense. That I'd certainly rank above LIC if part of the conversation.
I was in Boston in the last month and it looked very busy to me. DC when I was last there was lively in the neighborhoods but pretty dead downtown, however that was about a year ago so it may have changed some since then. I think with the hybrid work schedules it also matters a lot what day it is. Wednesday is a lot more busy than Monday.
I was in Boston in the last month and it looked very busy to me. DC when I was last there was lively in the neighborhoods but pretty dead downtown, however that was about a year ago so it may have changed some since then. I think with the hybrid work schedules it also matters a lot what day it is. Wednesday is a lot more busy than Monday.
my issue with DC is that I personally have a hard time finding the 'spot. Is it Downtown? Dumont? What about Navy Yard? Can Arlington Count? wb Georgetown?
There are a lot of spots that seem uniquely the same in foot traffic, so I have a hard time measuring that. Boston is crazy busy in like 5 neighborhoods than it drops off a good level as the neighborhoods become more residential and less mixed use. (ie, Charlestown, Cambridgeport, West End, Fenway, Allston, Roxbury, Southie and even the South End) so its a bit clearer to draw the Downtown.
I was in Boston in the last month and it looked very busy to me. DC when I was last there was lively in the neighborhoods but pretty dead downtown, however that was about a year ago so it may have changed some since then. I think with the hybrid work schedules it also matters a lot what day it is. Wednesday is a lot more busy than Monday.
Yea, Boston's downtown definitely had people going about and it was nice weather on a weekend. It's just that Center City the last two times I went, also on weekends, was almost absurdly bustling. DC I had a similar impression of in terms of downtown areas on the major streets, but on the other hand the Mall was bustling with tourists even though a good part of that was during the weekday. That being said, there was also a convention of sorts that weekend.
I would drop Philly to about DC. I have been there ~6 times in the past year, and outside a few rumbling sin Center City it was kind of dead everywhere.
I think it's possible for folks to have variable experiences these days in all of these cities, depending on events/weather and such, with a WFH dynamic.
Center City is has recovered remarkably well, especially after some very challenging times/events. Tourists and residential activity now surpasses pre-pandemic levels--it's the commuter foot traffic (as in most cities) that's still lagging and will for some time.
One thing that's clear for Philly is the number of events/festivals/block parties in 2023 between spring and fall have been truly off-the-charts. I know that Chicago has a similar "festive" culture during non-winter months, but I'm not sure SF, Boston and DC really have the same kind of dynamic. Those types of things really go far to bring a constant churn of folks downtown.
I think it's possible for folks to have variable experiences these days in all of these cities, depending on events/weather and such, with a WFH dynamic.
Center City is has recovered remarkably well, especially after some very challenging times/events. Tourists and residential activity now surpasses pre-pandemic levels--it's the commuter foot traffic (as in most cities) that's still lagging and will for some time.
One thing that's clear for Philly is the number of events/festivals/block parties in 2023 between spring and fall have been truly off-the-charts. I know that Chicago has a similar "festive" culture during non-winter months, but I'm not sure SF, Boston and DC really have the same kind of dynamic. Those types of things really go far to bring a constant churn of folks downtown.
Yeah well unfortunately Boston, SF and DC (around Downtown) are pretty much… gentrified to the max lol. Block parties? No way. Corporate beer gardens! Lol. If thats not your vibe, try one of the overpriced cocktail lounges. Also Chinatown is much more street active in Philly with events and parties. Everytime i go to chinatown in philly something big is going on there. Not the case elsewhere.
Thats one unarguable thing Philly definitely has above Boston/SF/DC/Manhattan/Brooklyn.
I’m in Chicago right now for the week and it’s cold as ****.
But I’m going to brave the weather later and check out downtown and possibly adjacent neighborhoods. I’ll report back later
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