A first! Sacramento vs Baltimore... (bigger, state, better, largest)
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I don't think Baltimore feels particularly 'big city" at all. Urban, sure, but there are plenty of highly urban places that are not big cities and there are suburban cities that nonetheless feel massive. IMO the San Jose area feels much more "big city" than Baltimore; that's not not even close. That's one of the 2-3 most important cities in the US economically and you can feel that. Baltimore is very sleepy in comparison. Sacramento is different story of course, but I doubt there is that big difference between it and Baltimore on that front...
I agree, there are plenty of cities, like Baltimore, that have density, are walkable, and have a traditional old urban feel because they came of age well before automobiles. But, that does not mean they have a modern "big city" feel. Baltimore is kinda of sleepy and quiet for its size.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sacramento is the Baltimore of the west more than any other city in the west concerning size, feel, and pace. Interesting how the poll has been an even-split from the get go.
I don't think Baltimore feels particularly 'big city" at all. Urban, sure, but there are plenty of highly urban places that are not big cities and there are suburban cities that nonetheless feel massive. IMO the San Jose area feels much more "big city" than Baltimore; that's not not even close. That's one of the 2-3 most important cities in the US economically and you can feel that. Baltimore is very sleepy in comparison. Sacramento is different story of course, but I doubt there is that big difference between it and Baltimore on that front...
Comparing part of ~7.7 million region vs. the central core of a ~3 million region will never pencil out well.
San Jose feels like a hyper educated, half scale version of San Bernardino Valley. If that's the measuring stick for what qualifies as "big city", then sure Baltimore isn't a big city.
I agree, there are plenty of cities, like Baltimore, that have density, are walkable, and have a traditional old urban feel because they came of age well before automobiles. But, that does not mean they have a modern "big city" feel. Baltimore is kinda of sleepy and quiet for its size.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sacramento is the Baltimore of the west more than any other city in the west concerning size, feel, and pace. Interesting how the poll has been an even-split from the get go.
Portland would honestly be more comparable to Baltimore than Sacramento.
2019 stats:
BWI: 28.9 million passengers
SMF (Sacramento Int'l Airport): 13.2 million passengers
Non-stop Direct flights only:
Ignoring BWI's international flights to the Caribbean, they have only one international flight to Europe, non to Asia(correct me if I'm wrong).
International flights that Sacramento has that BWI does not have, given BWI's size you would think they would have these: GDL, Mexico City, Leon, and Vancouver.
Sacramento loses way more passengers to the Bay Area than, Baltimore does to Philly.
Dulles is essentially a Baltimore-area airport; whereas, SFO and Oak are not Sacramento area airports.
Dulles to downtown Baltimore: 60 miles
Sacramento to SFO: 100 miles
Baltimore to Philly airport: 100 miles
2019 stats:
BWI: 28.9 million passengers
SMF (Sacramento Int'l Airport): 13.2 million passengers
Non-stop Direct flights only:
Ignoring BWI's international flights to the Caribbean, they have only one international flight to Europe, non to Asia(correct me if I'm wrong).
International flights that Sacramento has that BWI does not have, given BWI's size you would think they would have these: GDL, Mexico City, Leon, and Vancouver.
Sacramento loses way more passengers to the Bay Area than, Baltimore does to Philly.
Dulles is essentially a Baltimore-area airport; whereas, SFO and Oak are not Sacramento area airports.
Dulles to downtown Baltimore: 60 miles
Sacramento to SFO: 100 miles
Baltimore to Philly airport: 100 miles
BWI's international flights
Air Canada - Toronto
Copa Airlines - Panama City
British Airways - London
Condor - Frankfurt
Frontier - Cancun
Iceland Air - ReykjavÃk–KeflavÃk
Play - ReykjavÃk–KeflavÃk
Spirit - Cancun
Southwest - Belize City, San Jose (CR)
I don't think Baltimore feels particularly 'big city" at all. Urban, sure, but there are plenty of highly urban places that are not big cities and there are suburban cities that nonetheless feel massive. IMO the San Jose area feels much more "big city" than Baltimore; that's not not even close. That's one of the 2-3 most important cities in the US economically and you can feel that. Baltimore is very sleepy in comparison. Sacramento is different story of course, but I doubt there is that big difference between it and Baltimore on that front...
I think most people recognize that "big city"-isms can get super opinionated and subjective. The most vocal posters on Baltimore's side of this comp haven't been to Sacramento, but some posters have been to both and I think the overall thread/poll reflects there's not a strong objective lean either way for people who have been to both cities, so then it just boils down to what you prefer and why...
As far as "big city" feel, I do think Baltimore feels like a big city, and like a slightly larger city than Sacramento. But emphasis on slightly, Baltimore doesn't feel "way more" anything than Sacramento, and all the hard metrics support that there isn't a wide gap between the two...
All of California's large cities feel like "big cities", and while Baltimore is a "big city" to me, comparatively it isn't so large nor feels so large that anyone should put it more than marginally ahead of any second/third tier California city, if they rank it ahead at all...
Sacramentans can be cynical, I think most people of any city can be, but Sacramento has strong transit infrastructure, thriving nightlife and entertainment, strong recreation, very very strong arts scene, robust education infrastructure---->these are all criteria of big cities and contribute to Sac's big city "feel". I've been to 32 states and 9 of the 17 2-3 million MSA cities, you see enough of this country, there are plenty of places doing worse than Sacramento in some of these categories...
I agree, there are plenty of cities, like Baltimore, that have density, are walkable, and have a traditional old urban feel because they came of age well before automobiles. But, that does not mean they have a modern "big city" feel. Baltimore is kinda of sleepy and quiet for its size.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sacramento is the Baltimore of the west more than any other city in the west concerning size, feel, and pace. Interesting how the poll has been an even-split from the get go.
2019 stats:
BWI: 28.9 million passengers
SMF (Sacramento Int'l Airport): 13.2 million passengers
Non-stop Direct flights only:
Ignoring BWI's international flights to the Caribbean, they have only one international flight to Europe, non to Asia(correct me if I'm wrong).
International flights that Sacramento has that BWI does not have, given BWI's size you would think they would have these: GDL, Mexico City, Leon, and Vancouver.
Sacramento loses way more passengers to the Bay Area than, Baltimore does to Philly.
Dulles is essentially a Baltimore-area airport; whereas, SFO and Oak are not Sacramento area airports.
Dulles to downtown Baltimore: 60 miles
Sacramento to SFO: 100 miles
Baltimore to Philly airport: 100 miles
Sacramento has been gaining passengers while OAK loses passengers, which I think is a suggestion that more people from the East Bay are choosing SMF for air travel...
Air Canada - Toronto
Copa Airlines - Panama City
British Airways - London
Condor - Frankfurt
Frontier - Cancun
Iceland Air - ReykjavÃk–KeflavÃk
Play - ReykjavÃk–KeflavÃk
Spirit - Cancun
Southwest - Belize City, San Jose (CR)
That's right, I forgot about the Frankfurt and Reykjavik flights. I'm surprised there are no other Caribbean flights other than Cancun and Belize City.
So, Sacramento flights to the Hawaiian Islands, Central and Western Mexico, and Vancouver is what Sacramento has over Baltimore.
Sacramento Int'l Airport:
Air Canada - Vancouver, Toronto
Volaris, AeroMexico, Southwest: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico City, Leon, Guadalajara.
Hawaiian and Southwest: Honolulu, Maui, Kona
Although Hawaii is not considered "International" its further than the Caribbean, the equivalent of a "continent away", and almost as far as Europe is from the east coast.
So, is there a non-stop from BWI to Hawaii, I don't think so, but I would be surprised if not at least one to Honolulu.
That's right, I forgot about the Frankfurt and Reykjavik flights. I'm surprised there are no other Caribbean flights other than Cancun and Belize City.
So, Sacramento flights to the Hawaiian Islands, Central and Western Mexico, and Vancouver is what Sacramento has over Baltimore.
Sacramento Int'l Airport:
Air Canada - Vancouver, Toronto
Volaris, AeroMexico, Southwest: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico City, Leon, Guadalajara.
Hawaiian and Southwest: Honolulu, Maui, Kona
Although Hawaii is not considered "International" its further than the Caribbean, the equivalent of a "continent away", and almost as far as Europe is from the east coast.
So, is there a non-stop from BWI to Hawaii, I don't think so, but I would be surprised if not at least one to Honolulu.
There are direct flights to Nassau, Cancun, Montego Bay, Punta Cana, San Juan, Aruba, and San Jose and Guanacaste in Costa Rica from BWI.
Every city in the North East sans Boston was a major manufacturing hub going into the late 1800's.
But having major manufacture alone doesn't make the city "rust belt." The only difference between Baltimore and Philly (who annexed in 1854) is that Baltimore didn't, so it lost out to its peripheral burbs during the mass white flight post 1950's. The people who left, moved right over the "fence" to Baltimore county which is why so much of it looks no different than the city proper.
Yeas, most of them were major manufacturing hubs and almost all of them lost a lot of population and those jobs. It doesn't mean manufacturing was the largest industry in all of the cities, but it was the case for Baltimore.
I think saying the north east by itself has some grey areas as Pittsburgh is in the northeast, but not the northeast corridor and is most certainly Rust Belt.
Yes, Philadelphia having the then little developed northeastern area to spread into with mass suburbanization did help. It's arguable if Philadelphia should be considered rust belt, and I've certainly heard people refer to it as such.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-25-2023 at 06:39 PM..
Yeas, most of them were major manufacturing hubs and almost all of them lost a lot of population and those jobs. It doesn't mean manufacturing was the largest industry in all of the cities, but it was the case for Baltimore.
I think saying the north east by itself has some grey areas as Pittsburgh is in the northeast, but not the northeast corridor and is most certainly Rust Belt.
Yes, Philadelphia having the then little developed northeastern area to spread into with mass suburbanization did help. It's arguable if Philadelphia should be considered rust belt, and I've certainly heard people refer to it as such.
Manufacturing was not the largest industry in Baltimore, shipping trade was. Yes, Baltimore had lots of manufacturing spawn from the port operations especially post B&O railroad creation, but it was first and for most a raw trade port until containerization popped up in the 1920's and opened that can of worms.
I do agree theres grey areas and some overlap so I can get why people would lump Baltimore and even Philly in that group.
Last edited by Joakim3; 11-25-2023 at 08:24 PM..
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