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The urbanity still favors Baltimore but is closer than I gave it credit for. Sacramento simply doesn't have the dead zones/urban prairie Baltimore does...
Sacramento also I think is closer in terms of pedestrian activity, there are people on the streets all the time and the walkability in Sac is higher than some old sites suggest. Baltimore still stronger on this front but it's close...
In sports, Sac is gonna host the A's for the next three seasons, and is now shooting to the top of the list as an MLB expansion city. Now in Baltimore you get MLB and NFL, beginning next year you'll get MLB and NBA in Sacramento. And we'll have the edge in probably sports overall because Sac State sports are a higher division of sports in Sac than Baltimore collegiate athletics, soccer is bigger in Sac, and our NFL fandom is strong as well...
Baltimore feels larger but it's marginal. It's more densely built within the core and has heavy rail but it's downtown isn't bigger than Sac's, it's the denser development and rail that give it a larger feel. But it's not that much larger...
This is a strong, strong city. I've found that more people are finding out about Sac, I wish more people here knew about it. This is a dope ass city. As far as I'm concerned the advantages Baltimore has just really isn't wide enough of a gap to put it over Sacramento which just does better in more areas overall...
NFL alone trumps mls and NBA with ease.
NBA is just unwatchable today. Nobody wants to watch a chucking contest. Infuriating cause the NBA was awesome not so long ago.
MLS is a cool league, but it'll never get the attention it deserves.
Cool for Sacramento to finally get a good NBA team, I know it's helped downtown out, but from the outsider pov it hasn't benefited Sacramento as much as boosters like to think
"NBA attendance is down, while NFL attendance sets a new record almost annually. NBA ratings have fallen almost 45 percent in the past decade, while NFL ratings remain tops in sports and have been rising mildly in recent years."
NFL alone trumps mls and NBA with ease.
NBA is just unwatchable today. Nobody wants to watch a chucking contest. Infuriating cause the NBA was awesome not so long ago.
MLS is a cool league, but it'll never get the attention it deserves.
Cool for Sacramento to finally get a good NBA team, I know it's helped downtown out, but from the outsider pov it hasn't benefited Sacramento as much as boosters like to think
"NBA attendance is down, while NFL attendance sets a new record almost annually. NBA ratings have fallen almost 45 percent in the past decade, while NFL ratings remain tops in sports and have been rising mildly in recent years."
You have strong opinions, you do realize that your opinions are still opinions, right?
I also prefer NFL. As far as NBA goes, locally it's thriving, people go to games. MLS will never reach the heights NFL has but it's growing in popularity domestically, as is the sport of soccer in general...
Sports culture is about more than just a comparison of the major leagues. Sacramento has a huge sports culture, as does Baltimore; my purpose in even bringing up the major leagues was just to highlight Sac has two big leagues in town as does Baltimore, and probably does sports better than Baltimore on the whole...
Any of you guys familiar with Baltimore, can you define the parameters of what the core city neighborhoods of Baltimore are; and/or what would be the *general* borders of what central city Baltimore would be? I'm trying to get an understanding of what the core city neighborhoods are...
I know they include Downtown, Federal Hill, Mount Vernon, but what else? Any help on this, is much appreciated!
I am of tge opinion that there are some outdated opinions of Baltimore. I haven't been in over 3 years, but when I was last there, I did not come away with the impression that it feels as large on the ground as posters here suggest. As urban, yes. As large, no. There are plenty of cities that are quite urban but are rather small (the aforementioned Providence comes to mind, as does Buffalo). Obviously Baltimore is much larger than those cities, but I wonder if people conflate Baltimore's urbanity with its size...
I would say that both San Diego, and all of California's third tier cities (which would all be first tier cities in most states) are peers of Baltimore. I do not know where the perception comes from that Baltimore is of a higher class of city than Cali's cities, other than there's a disconnect on what Baltimore is today compared to what it was when you all were growing up, and what California's cities also are today...
For reference, in California SD is seen slightly ahead of the Sac/Oak/SJ triumvirate, but not by much. So by proxy, if one felt Baltimore was ahead of Sac, it isn't by a wide margin, something I believe 100% and it seems the voting here illustrates that most posters don't feel Baltimore is, either. But there is a vocal contingent of Baltimore backers here, so please, I'd really appreciate if someone can tell me what the core neighborhoods are...
You have strong opinions, you do realize that your opinions are still opinions, right?
I also prefer NFL. As far as NBA goes, locally it's thriving, people go to games. MLS will never reach the heights NFL has but it's growing in popularity domestically, as is the sport of soccer in general...
Sports culture is about more than just a comparison of the major leagues. Sacramento has a huge sports culture, as does Baltimore; my purpose in even bringing up the major leagues was just to highlight Sac has two big leagues in town as does Baltimore, and probably does sports better than Baltimore on the whole...
Any of you guys familiar with Baltimore, can you define the parameters of what the core city neighborhoods of Baltimore are; and/or what would be the *general* borders of what central city Baltimore would be? I'm trying to get an understanding of what the core city neighborhoods are...
I know they include Downtown, Federal Hill, Mount Vernon, but what else? Any help on this, is much appreciated!
I am of tge opinion that there are some outdated opinions of Baltimore. I haven't been in over 3 years, but when I was last there, I did not come away with the impression that it feels as large on the ground as posters here suggest. As urban, yes. As large, no. There are plenty of cities that are quite urban but are rather small (the aforementioned Providence comes to mind, as does Buffalo). Obviously Baltimore is much larger than those cities, but I wonder if people conflate Baltimore's urbanity with its size...
I would say that both San Diego, and all of California's third tier cities (which would all be first tier cities in most states) are peers of Baltimore. I do not know where the perception comes from that Baltimore is of a higher class of city than Cali's cities, other than there's a disconnect on what Baltimore is today compared to what it was when you all were growing up, and what California's cities also are today...
For reference, in California SD is seen slightly ahead of the Sac/Oak/SJ triumvirate, but not by much. So by proxy, if one felt Baltimore was ahead of Sac, it isn't by a wide margin, something I believe 100% and it seems the voting here illustrates that most posters don't feel Baltimore is, either. But there is a vocal contingent of Baltimore backers here, so please, I'd really appreciate if someone can tell me what the core neighborhoods are...
Downtown of course, Fed Hill, Little Italy, Fells Point, Harbor East, Harbor Point, Otterbein. If you push the boundaries, you can include Locust Point, Canton, Bolton Hill, Pigtown.
I've never been to Sacramento but I'd take it over Baltimore any day, primarily because I'm fairly confident I can drive in downtown Sacramento without getting into potential fisticuffs with guys trying to (poorly) wash my windscreen against my wishes and then charge me for it.
Any of you guys familiar with Baltimore, can you define the parameters of what the core city neighborhoods of Baltimore are; and/or what would be the *general* borders of what central city Baltimore would be? I'm trying to get an understanding of what the core city neighborhoods are...
I know they include Downtown, Federal Hill, Mount Vernon, but what else? Any help on this, is much appreciated!
Pretty much anything within a ~ 1mile of the Harbor is "core" Baltimore. Downtown, Inner Harbor, Sharp-Leadenhall, Federal Hill, Riverside, Otterbien, Poppleton, Pigtown, Harbor East/Point, Little Italy, Mt. Vernon/Midtown.
The catch is, there are more neighborhoods in the city outside of that mile radius that are just as urban and have just as if not more foot traffic as "core" Baltimore. Fells Point, JHU Medical campus, Canton, Hampden, Remington, Brewers Hill, Station North, Locust Point, Charles North, Port Covington, etc.. being prime examples.
A visual of the cities 'cores' to scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
I am of tge opinion that there are some outdated opinions of Baltimore. I haven't been in over 3 years, but when I was last there, I did not come away with the impression that it feels as large on the ground as posters here suggest. As urban, yes. As large, no. There are plenty of cities that are quite urban but are rather small (the aforementioned Providence comes to mind, as does Buffalo). Obviously Baltimore is much larger than those cities, but I wonder if people conflate Baltimore's urbanity with its size...
No one conflates Baltimore's size. As of 2024 theres still almost 1 million people living inside the 695 Beltway (~156 sq/mi) which puts it at roughly 2/3rds the size of Philly, DC or Boston.
Baltimore feels "small" because swaths of the city are or perceived as no-go zones for tourist/county people and its suburbs are wooded SFH/townhome col-de-sacs, rather than grids like western metro's so theres clear distinction between what is "city" and what is "burbs", not so much in Sacramento.
If suburbia sprawl is your definition of size, Baltimore still has the covered. Take the 1 hour (pre-bridge collapse) drive from Annapolis to Bel-Air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
I would say that both San Diego, and all of California's third tier cities (which would all be first tier cities in most states) are peers of Baltimore. I do not know where the perception comes from that Baltimore is of a higher class of city than Cali's cities, other than there's a disconnect on what Baltimore is today compared to what it was when you all were growing up, and what California's cities also are today...
For reference, in California SD is seen slightly ahead of the Sac/Oak/SJ triumvirate, but not by much. So by proxy, if one felt Baltimore was ahead of Sac, it isn't by a wide margin, something I believe 100% and it seems the voting here illustrates that most posters don't feel Baltimore is, either. But there is a vocal contingent of Baltimore backers here, so please, I'd really appreciate if someone can tell me what the core neighborhoods are...
Theres no perception or disconnect on where Baltimore stands today.
Baltimore is substantially older, more established and outright larger than all of them faults, quirks and all. It economically blows the doors off of Sacramento. Comparing it to either Oakland & SJ in isolation is nigh on impossible without accounting for the influence SF exerts on the entire region, and no, Baltimore-DC's relationship is not the same as SF/Oakland/SJ.
I just moved back to MD after living in San Diego for 3 1/2 years. SD is not seen as "slightly" a head of Sac/Oak/SJ. It's significantly a head of them in cultural appeal, stand alone economic performance and objective size.
All things considered, SD is Baltimore's closest peer. Not Sacramento, Oakland or SJ for that matter.
[quote=Joakim3;66682079]Pretty much anything within a ~ 1mile of the Harbor is "core" Baltimore. Downtown, Inner Harbor, Sharp-Leadenhall, Federal Hill, Riverside, Otterbien, Poppleton, Pigtown, Harbor East/Point, Little Italy, Mt. Vernon/Midtown.
The catch is, there are more neighborhoods in the city outside of that mile radius that are just as urban and have just as if not more foot traffic as "core" Baltimore. Fells Point, JHU Medical campus, Canton, Hampden, Remington, Brewers Hill, Station North, Locust Point, Charles North, Port Covington, etc.. being prime examples.
A visual of the cities 'cores' to scale.
No one conflates Baltimore's size. As of 2024 theres still almost 1 million people living inside the 695 Beltway (~150 sq/mi) which puts it at roughly 2/3rds the size of Philly. Baltimore feels "small" because swaths of the city are a "no-go" zone for tourist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
I would say that both San Diego, and all of California's third tier cities (which would all be first tier cities in most states) are peers of Baltimore. I do not know where the perception comes from that Baltimore is of a higher class of city than Cali's cities, other than there's a disconnect on what Baltimore is today compared to what it was when you all were growing up, and what California's cities also are today...
For reference, in California SD is seen slightly ahead of the Sac/Oak/SJ triumvirate, but not by much. So by proxy, if one felt Baltimore was ahead of Sac, it isn't by a wide margin, something I believe 100% and it seems the voting here illustrates that most posters don't feel Baltimore is, either.
Theres no perception disconnect. SD is not seen as "slightly" a head of Sac/Oak/SJ. It's significantly a head of them in cultural appeal and economic performance and objective size.
I lived in Gaslamp, SD for 3 1/2 years until this February before I moved back to the MD. Baltimore outclasses everything in Cali sans San Diego, LA & SF.
Why? Because it's substantially older, outright larger and more established than all California's "lesser" cities and unlike Oakland & SJ, Baltimorre anchors its own metro, and that comes with significant economic & cultural benefits.
To the bolded: you aren't a Californian. Your perception is always gonna be from a built-in East Coast perspective...
You've said you've never been to Sacramento. My guess is you've probably spent minimal time at best, in Oakland and San Jose, too...
Something you won't grasp because you aren't a Californian, is that SD is more highly regarded by outsiders. It's highly regarded by Californians, and it is viewed as the #3 city, but the gap between LA and SD is viewed as larger than the gap between SD and Sac/SJ/Oakland...
To the bolded: you aren't a Californian. Your perception is always gonna be from a built-in East Coast perspective...
You've said you've never been to Sacramento. My guess is you've probably spent minimal time at best, in Oakland and San Jose, too...
Something you won't grasp because you aren't a Californian, is that SD is more highly regarded by outsiders. It's highly regarded by Californians, and it is viewed as the #3 city, but the gap between LA and SD is viewed as larger than the gap between SD and Sac/SJ/Oakland...
You're not from the east coast. You're always going to have a built-in West Coast perspective so whats your point?
Minimal time in Oakland and San Jose, but intelligent/grounded enough to know that they along with SF feel like one giant cohesive region, so comparing them in isolation to Baltimore is apples to oranges at best. Nobody said the gap between LA & SD is objectively closer than the gap between it and Sac/SJ/Oakland? That still doesn't make them colloquial cultural or economic peers with SD.
But as to not derail this thread. Luckily for us Google Earth exist, so my points stands on Baltimore vs. Sac.
Last edited by Joakim3; 04-27-2024 at 03:18 AM..
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