St Louis or Pittsburgh (living, best, state, better)

[imperialmog]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

I honestly get sick and tired of hearing this. If Pittsburgh is so "behind the times," then Lady GaGa -- like her or not -- would not have scheduled a second date in Pittsburgh due to overwhelming ticket demand. She's current. She's "now." She sold out in Pittsburgh in a flash.

And if you're talking about shopping, only Philadelphia, Washington DC and Baltimore heard of IKEA before Pittsburgh did. Not Chicago, not Atlanta, and not Dallas or Houston either.

Or are you talking about fashion trends specifically? Do you shop at American Eagle Outfitters or rue21? There's a reason I mention those two stores specifically. (HINT: Headquarters.)

Pittsburghers under the age of 45 seem to be as "with the times" as any other part of the country I've been to.

OK, Pittsburgh is behind the times with regard to Hispanic culture.

Actually that last part is a strong similarity with St. Louis. Both have among the smallest Hispanic populations by percentage among metro areas. Though both are likely to experience fast growth due to potential labor shortages developing later this decade as more retire than enter a workforce.

[adavi215]

I think I might have to go with Pittsburgh on this one. I believe its close to the appalachain mountains, which is myfavorite mountain chain in the US. It also has a better skyline and I like their higher ed schools. Of course St. Louis is no slouch in that department either. However, neither have the NBA.

[slengel]

Originally Posted by adavi215

I think I might have to go with Pittsburgh on this one. I believe its close to the appalachain mountains, which is myfavorite mountain chain in the US. It also has a better skyline and I like their higher ed schools. Of course St. Louis is no slouch in that department either. However, neither have the NBA.

immigration in st. louis is rapidly increasing, even at a much higher rate than most metropolitan areas. in addition to now having the largest bosnian community in the united states, st. louis is experiencing solid growth in immigration from all over the world:

From dearth of immigrants, growth here now outpaces nation

another related article mentions this:

"St. Louis stands apart from most metropolitan areas, including similar Midwestern cities, with a 40 percent rise over the past decade in the number of immigrants arriving. That dwarfs Cleveland's 5 percent increase or Pittsburgh's 13 percent growth - and is nearly double the national increase of 22 percent."

[maxposure]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

I honestly get sick and tired of hearing this. If Pittsburgh is so "behind the times," then Lady GaGa -- like her or not -- would not have scheduled a second date in Pittsburgh due to overwhelming ticket demand. She's current. She's "now." She sold out in Pittsburgh in a flash.

And if you're talking about shopping, only Philadelphia, Washington DC and Baltimore heard of IKEA before Pittsburgh did. Not Chicago, not Atlanta, and not Dallas or Houston either.

Or are you talking about fashion trends specifically? Do you shop at American Eagle Outfitters or rue21? There's a reason I mention those two stores specifically. (HINT: Headquarters.)

Pittsburghers under the age of 45 seem to be as "with the times" as any other part of the country I've been to.

OK, Pittsburgh is behind the times with regard to Hispanic culture.

Well if you've heard it many times before, then something must hold true, right? And I could care less about the retail or pop culture of Pittsburgh. I'm talking about the overall feel of the place, like it's been frozen in time with it's untouched neighborhoods with worn out houses and businesses throughout. It's what gives Pgh it's charm, IMO. Let's face it, people aren't flocking there in droves, how else do you explain the shrinking population going on for decades? The reason why the Steelers Nation is huge nationwide is because so many people have moved FROM Pgh to other parts of the country. The only people left are their Aunt Millie's and Grandpa Horace's who will die there. There are few places as provincial as Pittsburgh, really, many people who live there have never left, nor do they want to. Again, not really a bad thing, just sorta old fashioned, hence to me "behind the times".

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by maxposure

Well if you've heard it many times before, then something must hold true, right?

I've heard many people claim that the U.S. government "orchestrated" 9/11, so not necessarily. There's a saying, "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."

Originally Posted by maxposure

And I could care less about the retail or pop culture of Pittsburgh.

Whether you care or not, it's proof that Pittsburgh can not only be as "with the times" as anywhere else, but can also, in the case of retail, dictate "the times."

Originally Posted by maxposure

I'm talking about the overall feel of the place, like it's been frozen in time with it's untouched neighborhoods with worn out houses and businesses throughout.

Tell me, is a city that's among the leaders in this country in "green" construction really "frozen in time"? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by maxposure

Let's face it, people aren't flocking there in droves, how else do you explain the shrinking population going on for decades?

An extremely low birth rate among adults of child-bearing age certainly helps.

Originally Posted by maxposure

The reason why the Steelers Nation is huge nationwide is because so many people have moved FROM Pgh to other parts of the country.

Happened mainly during a 20-year period from 1975 to 1995. Pittsburgh actually has a lower rate of outmigration than many other cities its size or larger, both absolutely and proportionally.

Originally Posted by maxposure

The only people left are their Aunt Millie's and Grandpa Horace's who will die there.

Originally Posted by Gapers Block

And an incredibly educated [younger population] at that, vying with Washington D.C. for the largest proportion of young adults aged 25-34 with post-graduate degrees.

Originally Posted by maxposure

There are few places as provincial as Pittsburgh, really, many people who live there have never left, nor do they want to. Again, not really a bad thing, just sorta old fashioned, hence to me "behind the times".

I've heard that Boston is pretty provincial, yet nobody accuses them of being "behind the times."

What's awesome is, Pittsburgh avoided the phony economy of the last 10 to 15 years precisely because they were "old-fashioned." Life went on in Pittsburgh while life got turned upside-down elsewhere. Sometimes it's better to be the tortoise than the hare after all.

[NJPhilliesPhan]

Pittsburgh's beauty is amazing. It has so much to offer and is a rising star.

[adivineeternity]

I'm going to come completely clean here. I've never been to Pittsburgh, but I voted for St. Louis out of loyalty and love for the city, anyway. I lived in the Metro East for 7 years before heading off to college and most of the highlights of those seven years involved my multiple trips into the city itself. I have a lot of loyalty to the city (they're so behind in votes, how could I not?!).

HOWEVER, I really, really, really want to go to Pittsburgh. My best friend is desperate to move there (from Texas) as soon as she can, and between all she has said about the city and what I have read about it on city-data and other places online my curiosity has certainly been piqued. I'm in a decently convenient location for this currently, as I am a bit south of Erie trying to get some money in my bank account (I have no regrets for going to Baylor and think the price tag was extremely well worth the education I go there, but that doesn't make my bank account any more full). With any luck, I will get the opportunity to go one of these days.

Despite having only a limited amount of knowledge about Pittsburgh and a lot of loyalty to St. Louis, I'm going to say what I do know.

Weather: St. Louis summers suck, yes, but I lived in Texas for four years, so I don't mind them anywhere NEAR as much as I used to. That doesn't change the fact that for a city with only a couple of rivers nearby it has got psychotic humidity. On the Pittsburgh front, the winters are colder, and St. Louis borders on unbearable for me as it is. This is merely personal preference, of course, although I do have some health issues that come into play (asthma, allergies, and poor circulation). Things get bad when I get too cold. Fall in both areas, on the other hand, is amazing. I cannot speak for Spring in Pittsburgh yet, as I only just got where I am now in May, but I assume it's probably also very nice. St. Louis is rather stormy, but I also really love Spring there. I'm going to say that from my somewhat limited knowledge and experience, although the weather between the two should balance out, because of my issues with cold weather, St. Louis would win the weather category for me.

Architecture: From what I have seen in pictures of Pittsburgh and in person/pictures of St. Louis, both cities have some wonderful things going on architecturally. I am, however, very partial to the Arch. The views it offers from the top are spectacular, even in the Land of Corn and Soybeans. Arch aside, I really wouldn't give either city an edge here.

Crime: St. Louis's crime has been going down, yes, but the fact remains that there is still too much there and far too much work to be done. Pittsburgh, from what I understand, is generally much safer and takes this category hands-down.

Affordability: I've been doing research into apartments in both cities. Currently, St. Louis seems to be the more affordable of the two, but since I'm not sure which neighborhoods in each city might be somewhat comparable, I can't really say. I'm calling it a draw until I know any more.

Public Transportation: St. Louis's Metro system is nice, and pretty decent compared to most places. It's not amazing or great or anything, but it's decent, and between the buses and the light rail you can get most places in the metro area. From what I understand about Pittsburgh, this seems to be basically the same case, so I'll happily leave it at a draw.

Topography: Pittsburgh has mountains and a much nicer river. St. Louis has some hills and cliffs, a lot of cornfields, and the Big Muddy. The condition of the Mississippi is one of my pet peeves. Pittsburgh wins here easily.

Clearly, there's a lot of things I can't really speak about, such as culture, people, employment, etc. As a film degree holder, neither city has tons to offer, at least for me (although Pittsburgh might have slightly more). Also, I think what a lot of people perceive as rude in St. Louis is actually just some of the sarcasm that seems to be inherent in the city. I don't know what it is about St. Louis, but they can be very sarcastic there. Personally, I love it. It fits in with my sense of humor. I also love the Zoo, Science Center, and City Museum in St. Louis (City Museum simply cannot be compared to anything that I am aware of). The fact that there is so much to do for free in the city helps a lot, and I have an extremely weak spot for Forest Park (larger than Central Park in NYC by 400-500 acres). It's gorgeous, hilly, and wonderful. The only park I like more so far is Cameron Park in Waco, TX (the hiking there is amazing).

All in all, I find the comparisons between the two very interesting. I am currently attempting to find a better job than working part time as a cashier at Cracker Barrel right now, preferably something decently within my field (I do photography and will not shy away from corporate media, news stations, and commercials, in addition to film/lighting). My current top two choices are actually Pittsburgh and St. Louis (I love seeing new places, but I also have a sense of nostalgia for the STL). It'll all come down to where I can find work, of course, but I also have several other important considerations (cost-of-living needs to be as low as I can manage, safety is very important to me, and I don't own or even really want to own a car right now).

I also realize I may have just written a short novel instead of a post on a forum, so I'll leave it at this. I am curious to hear more on the public transportation situation in Pittsburgh, though, as I've gotten a whole mix of reviews (some think it sucks, others love it, etc.).

[LexusNexus]

Pittsburgh is an eastern city in the great state of PA. Far more character. I like the people better as well as the schools there. I overwhelmingly prefer PA to Missouri.

[ironcouger]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

I honestly get sick and tired of hearing this. If Pittsburgh is so "behind the times," then Lady GaGa -- like her or not -- would not have scheduled a second date in Pittsburgh due to overwhelming ticket demand. She's current. She's "now." She sold out in Pittsburgh in a flash.

And if you're talking about shopping, only Philadelphia, Washington DC and Baltimore heard of IKEA before Pittsburgh did. Not Chicago, not Atlanta, and not Dallas or Houston either.

Or are you talking about fashion trends specifically? Do you shop at American Eagle Outfitters or rue21? There's a reason I mention those two stores specifically. (HINT: Headquarters.)

Pittsburghers under the age of 45 seem to be as "with the times" as any other part of the country I've been to.

OK, Pittsburgh is behind the times with regard to Hispanic culture.

Actually rue21 is based in Warrendale Pa. same state though. And its also a a dicount retailer good fit for Pitburgh Fashion it seems that the discount stores thrive there. Ikea is a discount Swedish retailer also .

[slengel]

Originally Posted by Alexus

Pittsburgh is an eastern city in the great state of PA. Far more character. I like the people better as well as the schools there. I overwhelmingly prefer PA to Missouri.

i am from philadelphia, currently living in st. louis. this city is oozing with character and history as well. both pittsburgh and st. louis reached great city status early in their history. st. louis is nothing like the rest of missouri.