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To Cle440- It sounds to me like you make up bull**** stories to try and back your claim with no facts. Rah has kept stats coming in to back his claims. Obviously those cannot be right to you. San Francisco is in the middle of the pack when it comes to big u.s. cities in ghettoness. And no SF would not also be in the top 10 nicest when it comes to crime. This statement just goes to show how ignorant you are. SF has a higher crime rate than LA and NY along with many other cities. 100 murders a year when other large cities have half as many.
I don't think it is a coincidence that if you try to search for ghettos in SF online a lot of articles pop up. When you try this for some other large cities however it does not. IF SF is top 10 least ghetto than don't you find it odd that SF is one of the biggest players in the gangster rap industry and has produced some of the best rap ever? Also you have never answered why you consider San Jose and SF to be on the same level of ghettoness when SJ is not even close to SF in terms of this topic?
San Diego is illusive, Downtown is very clean and business driven, while south downtown (Petco Park area) is full of poverty and homeless, on the other side of balboa park you have lincoln park and logan ave, considered southeast san diego.. and that place is very ghetto.. other surrounding areas are ghetto also... El Cajon, Oceanside, Escondido, Chula Vista..
San Jose? lol i really doubt it... that is shark city. literally.
Honolulu has alot of poverty from what i hear.
Seattle
Salt Lake City
Minneapolis
Austin
Raleigh
Oklahoma City
Orlando
Chorpus Christi
Tijuana should be up there to.
California needs to see what a Ghetto looks like before it can say it has a ghetto. Oceanside, really? How can a place where the avg home is around 2 million be a freakin ghetto? I currently live in oceanside and was SHOCKED when people told me I lived in the ghetto. There is NOHING ghetto about oceanside. As far as chula vista, and escondido why do you say they are the ghetto? I think people in California relate a high concentration of hispanics with the ghetto and that is just not the case. I have never been to el cajon.
rah, you keep making yourself look like a fool. Apparently you do have a lot to prove. Have you lived in those other 40 large cities with a "lower crime rate" than San Francisco, so that you can make an accurate comparison? No, and I know that because you just told me that youve lived in San Francisco your entire life. Youre a hypocrite that keeps contradicting yourself. And for your information, a lot of my family/friends have lived in a lot of other large cities outside Frisco. So in all fairness they are more qualified than you in ranking San Francisco among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
I believe I already said that ghetto has a lot to do with crime rate, but it is a lot more than that. Since the only argument you have in keeping Frisco off the list is the above average crime rate, of course you would prefer to stay on that topic. Unfortunately for you, all the other categories that contribute to a place being "ghetto" are actually a lot nicer than average in San Francisco. I see no holes in my argument, only yours. I see that youve made your post sizes smaller, and you edit them in less time since Ive said that. I can leave saying that I taught you something, youre welcome.
415_810, what stories have I made up? I believe that I have already included stats and facts. And if youre too lazy to go on the census site, thats youre problem, not mine. Go and reread my last post, I just said it wouldnt be among the top 10 nicest if it was just according to crime rate, but a place being "ghetto" has a lot more to it than just higher crime rate. Now were bringing "gangsta rap" into this? You must be joking. Theres people in the nicest suburbs that are doing gangsta rap. I only said that they were "around equal" in ghettoness. The only cities I included a - on (less ghetto) were the ones that were very noticeably less ghetto, and San Jose was not. It has a lower high school graduation or higher %, much lower bachelors degree or higher %. Although I would say it is slightly less ghetto (and on what my family/friends have told me), its not that very noticeably less ghetto.
Yet again, Im done unless you want to keep arguing.
rah, you keep making yourself look like a fool. Apparently you do have a lot to prove. Have you lived in those other 40 large cities with a "lower crime rate" than San Francisco, so that you can make an accurate comparison? No, and I know that because you just told me that youve lived in San Francisco your entire life. Youre a hypocrite that keeps contradicting yourself. And for your information, a lot of my family/friends have lived in a lot of other large cities outside Frisco. So in all fairness they are more qualified than you in ranking San Francisco among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
I believe I already said that ghetto has a lot to do with crime rate, but it is a lot more than that. Since the only argument you have in keeping Frisco off the list is the above average crime rate, of course you would prefer to stay on that topic. Unfortunately for you, all the other categories that contribute to a place being "ghetto" are actually a lot nicer than average in San Francisco. I see no holes in my argument, only yours. I see that youve made your post sizes smaller, and you edit them in less time since Ive said that. I can leave saying that I taught you something, youre welcome.
You really are delusional. You haven't taught anyone anything. Anytime I prove you wrong (once again, with evidence to back up my claims), you ignore it, like it never happened, and try and get me with more personal attacks. Plus I haven't just stayed on the crime topic. I addressed poverty, only one page ago...or is your memory that bad?
The bottom line is, you're the one who looks like a fool, and not just to me...and unless you bring something to the table other than "my family and fiends say it's one of the 10 least ghetto cities," and your personal little list which multiple people have already disputed, you're going to continue looking like a fool.
You know what? I had an english professor who moved to SF 20 years ago, from Galveston, Texas. She told us that there were no ghettos in SF. She also told us that all kids in Japan wear helmets because there are so many earthquakes.
Your posts are getting smaller and smaller so obviously you have learned something from me. Youre probably trying to avoid me criticizing you for your ridiculously long posts again. You sure did address poverty, two pages ago...you pathetically tried to make an excuse and explain why San Francisco had such a low poverty rate. Apparently it didnt work. Oh, and youve never proved me wrong on here, ever.
I have brought much more to the table than that. The stats alone prove you wrong. The only thing youre bringing is single incidents, which also happen in every other large city, and try to say that San Francisco somehow cant be on the list because of these few incidents. Thats not bringing much to the table on your part. My family and friends are not comparable to some random english professor. That was a horrible comparison.
Are you through yet? youre not bringing anything else of importance to this argument. Again, Im done unless you want to keep going on and making yourself look foolish.
Your posts are getting smaller and smaller so obviously you have learned something from me. Youre probably trying to avoid me criticizing you for your ridiculously long posts again. You sure did address poverty, two pages ago...
Oh, I'm sorry. Two pages
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you pathetically tried to make an excuse and explain why San Francisco had such a low poverty rate. Apparently it didnt work. Oh, and youve never proved me wrong on here, ever.
Yes I have. I've posted so many things that refute what you claim, yet you have nothing to say about it except "you're wrong," based on second hand opinions, and a few stats (while conveniently ignoring other stats which are important to the argument I'm making). And in regards to my explanation of immgrants and poverty, and relative poverty, it's not an excuse, and there's nothing pathetic about it. You're just proving further that you need some reading comprehension skills.
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I have brought much more to the table than that.
No, you haven't.
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The stats alone prove you wrong.
No, they don't. (what is this, a conservative talk show on fox? you're taking my arguments against you, and flipping them back to me, without addressing them whatsoever)
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The only thing youre bringing is single incidents, which also happen in every other large city, and try to say that San Francisco somehow cant be on the list because of these few incidents. Thats not bringing much to the table on your part.
Did i ever say those incidents don't happen in other cities? No. Do they happen with the same frequency in a place like Honolulu, Seattle, or San Jose, as they do in San Francisco. NO. Not even close, and if YOU had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that too. You're getting really desperate here.
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My family and friends are not comparable to some random english professor. That was a horrible comparison.
Just trying to prove to you that people can live here for years and not know what the hell they're talking about.
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Are you through yet? youre not bringing anything else of importance to this argument. Again, Im done unless you want to keep going on and making yourself look foolish.
I guess facts aren't important to you. I'm done when you are. But I won't respond anymore until you say something new rather than repeating your whiney childish attacks against me. Because I'm going to end up constantly repeating my self too. You're right, maybe I am a fool...because I've been arguing in circles with you for so long. As far as my posts getting shorter, I've said what I need to, and like I just said, I don't want to keep repeating myself to you.
Finally, just because I've lived in SF all my life, doesn't mean I haven't been elsewhere. I've told you where I've been already, and I've stayed in other places for months at a time. SF, however is my home, a place I love, and choose to come back to. It has no bearing on my experiences around North America, or my understanding of those experiences.
You're grasping for straws. You know, it's ok to be wrong sometimes.
Since you obviously have nothing left of value to say on this argument, let me explain some more things to you actually on topic.
This is the list that I already put up of the top 10 least ghetto large cities in the US over 250k (IMO):
In order of size:
San Jose, CA
San Francisco, CA
Seattle, WA
Mesa, AZ
Virginia Beach, VA
Omaha, NE
Colorado Springs, CO
Honolulu, HI
Anchorage, AK
Plano, TX
Those 10 arent ranked in order of "ghettoness", just size, and just with this list Im not saying that any of them are more ghetto or less ghetto than the others (right now). It doesnt matter if you want to argue that any of those cities are less ghetto than San Francisco, even if San Francisco was the worst on that list, it would still be in the top 10. I didnt purposely make this list so that it would have 10 cities. I originally got a list of every city over 250k and compared all of them to San Francisco, whichever ones were more ghetto I put a +, whichever ones were very noticeably less ghetto I put a -, and whichever ones looked around equal I put a =. I ended up with 9 cities that were less or around equal to "ghettoness" compared to San Francisco. Either way there are 10 there, and San Francisco is in the top 10.
Now, if you want to argue that any of the other 62 cities over 250k in the US are less ghetto than San Francisco, be my guest. But I can assure you that Ive already looked through every one of those. I dont see why you want me to show you every stat here, its all on the government census website, and most even on city-data. Ive also been to or lived in a lot of the 250k+ cities, so dont think Im just basing everything off the stats.
I had to laugh at this comment you made: "You're grasping for straws. You know, it's ok to be wrong sometimes." Talk about irony.
jman650, yes I would like to put that argument to rest, but the only reasons its still going on is because you still dont understand it.
Cle, you obviously just like to argue and don't have the balls to admit when you've made a mistake, so I refuse to push this point any further. We both know what was said and its stupid to keep bickering over this. Continue to lower yourself if it makes you happy. I'm done with this one.
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Originally Posted by Cle440
. I dont know about you, but if there is a rough neighborhood and its was 90%+ white, I wouldnt call it ghetto.
LMAO at your ignorance! Where do you think the term "ghetto" originated, genius? Lol you're hilarious. Color is irrelevant; crime, decay and poverty are what lead to what we know as "ghettos." There are places, like parts of New Orleans, where white folks (Irish in this case) live just as poor as the black folks -- or so I'm told by my old boss who used to live there. Yes, generally ghettos aren't white and generally majority-white neighborhoods are not ghetto no matter how rough they are. But your denial of even the possibility of a white ghetto existing negates any credibility you may have thought you had on here. Good job!
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Originally Posted by Cle440
You need to understand my situation:
The stats say that San Francisco is among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
The media says that San Francisco is among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
The family I have in San Francisco says its among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
The friends/other people I know in San Francisco say its among the top 10 least ghetto large cities.
Im also very educated and experienced in urban areas/stats, all of that. Ive been extensively researching this stuff for nearly 7 years.
Most of the family/friends/people I know that Im talking about are well traveled and unbiased for the most part. They would have no reason to lie about this.
Oh my Lord, you are all comedy! The "stats" are your own arbitrary collection of criteria that defines what a ghetto is, w/o showing us the actual numbers you're claiming to use for these other cities.
At what point did the "media" actually say that about SF?
Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that you have personally interviewed each member of your family that supposedly lives out here (which I don't believe anyway given how you presented that "fact" way after digging yourself into a hole), either before or after this retarded debate ensued, and asked them to name their top ten least ghetto cities in the US??? And then each and every one of them proceeded to name SF somewhere in that list?? And then you went on to interview these other imaginary "friends/other people" in the same fashion and they all produced the same results??? Really dude? LMFAO!!!
Man even if that were true (and I don't believe for one second you took the time to do this), do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? You should be embarrassed to admit you went to that much effort just to try (and fail) to prove something to us! Who values whose opinion more here now??? You're way too desperate to prove your point.
Ya know, I'm very educated and experienced in nuclear fission/research, all of that stuff! You have to understand my situation. My family runs the SETI program and friends of mine monitor Stanford's linear accelerator. We've almost perfected cold fusion and will no longer have to rely on oil by next year! They would have no reason to lie about this, just like I wouldn't. Just like you wouldn't about your claim. You believe me, don't you?
How could you truly know how other areas are compared to San Francisco if youve never even been there for long enough to experience it?
Really? YOU of all people are actually going to ask THIS question?
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Originally Posted by Cle440
None of that is special and those few incidents dont somehow make the whole city bad, or take it off the list.
When will you get that no one cares whats on your list? The argument is carrying on b/c of all the retarded ways you're going about trying to prove your point. We don't care about your list. You can make SF numbers 1-10 if you like. Your opinion is moot.
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Originally Posted by Cle440
I have family/friends that have lived in San Francisco their whole lives, only visited other places. I have family/friends that have lived in San Francisco for years, and have lived in many other large cities for years. I have family/friends that are from the "ghetto" in Frisco and around the bay area. They all say it is among the top 10 least ghetto large cities. But according to you they dont know what theyre talking about and your "opinion" is correct and theirs isnt.
Dude, that doesn't even sound believable. I like how NOW you have all this inside opinion at your disposal, but earlier it was simply your "educated" opinion. Don't you have any self-respect? Any shame? You're making such a fool of yourself, why is winning this argument so important to you?
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Originally Posted by Cle440
Your trying too hard, you have too much to prove.
And somehow you're not and you don't? I hate to break it to you chief, but the same rules apply to all of us, and you're trying way too hard to prove a point about some random city that you've never even been to.
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Originally Posted by Cle440
My views/opinion really means that much to you? I dont see how you plan to accomplish making me take Frisco off the list when the stats, media, friends, family, pretty much everything and everybody else says that it is among the top 10 least ghetto excluding a few of you on city-data I dont even know. Apparently your the ones who cant accept the reality.
Apparently our opinions matter enough to you for you to still be arguing this, so you can't really talk. Don't expect Rah to quit when you're trying to tell him how his hometown is, especially when you've never even been here! This whole argument is retarded! You can believe what you want to falsely believe via your unqualified opinion, and we will continue to know what we know. Leave it at that, you're not even capable of convincing us otherwise. You're like a virgin trying to give advice on sex. You know nothing, so your opinion is worthless. Get it through your head already.
And who are you to speak for "everybody else" in your ridiculous claim? You don't know the Bay! I CAN actually say that most folks out here would not share your opinion b/c we here all KNOW the reality, and that's the truth! Most folks that live in the Bay Area feel that SF is actually pretty rough and many that come here from elsewhere are surprised b/c the stereotypes (like those you apparently buy into) don't tell that story. I actually just was in NYC for Spring Break and had a cab driver telling me how surprised he was by how scary our downtown is (true story). And I'm not trying to impress you by telling you that, I'm just giving an example of what I'm talking about.
You still have yet to have anyone on here agreeing with you, and you're going to try and say that we're the ones whose opinions are outnumbered? Wow, that's some serious denial. You've got issues.
Last edited by jman650; 04-13-2009 at 11:40 PM..
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"Ghetto"?
