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You might want to come back an visit DC. The amount of high rise buildings the same height as downtown under construction on 14th street is astronomical. There are to many projects to name. You should visit the links I posted a page or two ago. It will catch you up on the current state of Washington DC. Memories of DC's built environment is obsolete now and those memories will need refreshing for years as projects deliver.
I am in DC every day, and 14th street / Logan Square is where I spend my weekends. There is def a lot of construction going on in DC but I dont think many of these projects will really change the overall feel of DC as a whole, they seem to be mostly infill.
In regards to 14th street, I stick by what I said, most of 14th above Thomas Circle is very residential/lowrise.
I have a question. Is it the narrow street that attracts you to these areas? Is it the dirty buildings (not trying to be negative) that attracts you too these area's? I assume it's a combination of both which is obviously your personal preference. I don't like the office ghetto look either.
When I think about downtown D.C., I just think about the core as a whole because everything touches unlike most cities. An example of this is the fact that I consider 14th street clear past U st. into Columbia Heights downtown now. Where exactly is the boundary? The buildings are all the same height and there is no break. With all the construction going on everywhere, there is no break in development or height. It's no different than Dupont Circle's connection to downtown. Also, Shaw will be apart of downtown in a few years with the projects on 7th street going up. H street is no different since NOMA and the Atlas District are merging stretching downtown to an unprecedented size. What about the waterfront's going up? Downtown D.C. is different than any city on this list because of the height limit. As D.C. infills throughout the city, where will downtown stop? Look at an aerial of Paris. What is considered a CBD in Paris proper exactly? Height limits have major advantages to the built environment other than the disadvantage of not having a skyline.
No not a narrow street nor do I find these really as dirty buildings, tremndous architecture abounds in this area, office ghetto look, well again we will disagree, personaly dont see it.
What I do see is after 5 these areas become even more vibrant teeming with life. Bars, restaurants, gallerys and sidewalks filled with diversity, life, and vitality. That is what I love, personally I find very few places in the country that can replicate this level.
And to your last paragraph. If it isnt mono-chromatic/size whatever it isn't urban? (You do realize NYC is anything but mono height or style, right?) So you want block after block of the same and I dont personally; to me that is very boring and not very organic. I as well as others also disagree it is as continuous as you describe though do think it is too similar overall for my liking. That said I still think DC is one of the best and most vibrant DTs in the country.
Do you find DC more vibrant? Amd always curious as I dont think you have said either way. Am just curious
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
How, Boston beats Indy om Bars, resturants, cultural instistutions, better Parks, architecture (subjective I know), better waterfront, vibrancy, number residents, number of workers, public transit,, cusine and Market (fanuial hall marketplace+Haymarket), history, and countless other things.
You're feeding into their ego, don't! I wouldn't compare downtown MInneapolis to Boston (and don't), because Boston is in a clearly different league. Indianapolitains don't know better because they're high off the Super Bowl and feel invincible and don't realize that Indy is still a fraction of what Boston, DC, Philly, SF, Chicago, NYC, etc are, and that's okay....or at least, it should be.
I am in DC every day, and 14th street / Logan Square is where I spend my weekends. There is def a lot of construction going on in DC but I dont think many of these projects will really change the overall feel of DC as a whole, they seem to be mostly infill.
In regards to 14th street, I stick by what I said, most of 14th above Thomas Circle is very residential/lowrise.
Even with all of the construction going on in DC, I don't think it will change the overall "urbaness" of the city as a whole.
I think pretty good perspective
Wicker park reminds me of bigger version of Northern Liberties in Philly in many ways. These are types of urban nabes that on the whole dont really have a counterpart in DC. Oddly Wicker park in many ways is the Chicago nabe that IMHO has the most similar feel to the older NE city nabes outside of DT.
Though there are nabes outside of DT in Chicago that feel like pats of DC to me.
Like by the El stop at Diversy and Halstead (if my memory serves me there is a Choc shop close to the El that makes a mean Hot Choc) and areas of Shaw (Chicagos being further from the core) while not exactly the same I get a similar vibe and like both areas
I am in DC every day, and 14th street / Logan Square is where I spend my weekends. There is def a lot of construction going on in DC but I dont think many of these projects will really change the overall feel of DC as a whole, they seem to be mostly infill.
In regards to 14th street, I stick by what I said, most of 14th above Thomas Circle is very residential/lowrise.
Even with all of the construction going on in DC, I don't think it will change the overall "urbaness" of the city as a whole.
I honestly don't understand what you mean. All of D.C. is low rise. If you are looking for Chicago or NYC in D.C., you aren't going to find it. I'm just speaking about the surge of density in the corridor. All the buildings will be between 8-9 stories and have around 200-250 units each. I think 3,000 new units on 14th street in Mid City will have a major impact on the feel at street level. This corridor is going from one and two story buildings to a 8 story street wall all the way to Columbia Heights. Did you actually look at the development pipeline I posted? How is that not going to make a difference? The same thing is happening on 7th street in shaw and H street in the Atlas District.
NOMA, Capitol Riverfront, Southwest Waterfront, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Northwest One, SW Federal Complex, and Penn Quarter are all seeing major changes. Why don't you feel like all this infill development and population density increases will change the feel of D.C.? Im confused by your logic on the subject because infill is actually the only way to change a neighborhood. Go to a neighborhood with one story and two story buildings and visit a neighborhood with 0 Lot development zoning and 8 story buildings built to form a street wall. That creates a big difference in my opinion, at least from a planner or developer perspective.
The National Mall is also seeing some major changes that will improve the downtown core. A major notable difference is the construction of the National African American History Museum next to the Washington Monument which will be finished in 2015. I don't think D.C. has ever seen this much construction in it's history.
No not a narrow street nor do I find these really as dirty buildings, tremndous architecture abounds in this area, office ghetto look, well again we will disagree, personaly dont see it.
What I do see is after 5 these areas become even more vibrant teeming with life. Bars, restaurants, gallerys and sidewalks filled with diversity, life, and vitality. That is what I love, personally I find very few places in the country that can replicate this level.
And to your last paragraph. If it isnt mono-chromatic/size whatever it isn't urban? (You do realize NYC is anything but mono height or style, right?) So you want block after block of the same and I dont personally; to me that is very boring and not very organic. I as well as others also disagree it is as continuous as you describe though do think it is too similar overall for my liking. That said I still think DC is one of the best and most vibrant DTs in the country.
Do you find DC more vibrant? Amd always curious as I dont think you have said either way. Am just curious
D.C.'s downtown core is so much larger than Center City in footprint that it is impossible to compare them apples to apples. A comparison that can be drawn is Center City to the East End part of downtown. I don't think the East End as a whole is as vibrant as Center City in Philadelphia "YET". Philadelphia doesn't have an answer for Gallery Place but honestly only New York can beat that strip on a 24/hr rotation. City Center is going to amplify this area into a truly spectacular destination. I think the East End is about 5 years from reaching that type of vibrancy from corner to corner. The F street retail corridor plan is moving forward. City Center is under construction. Mt. Vernon Triangle is building 2,000 housing units. When all that construction is done and new residents are moved in, then I will revaluate the two areas.
Honestly, Center City is just so small compared to the downtown core in D.C. There are so many districts in D.C.'s downtown core being built right now. I don't see how an apples to apples comparison is possible. This comparison is going to be extremly hard in a few years. And streetcars are just going to intensify the development in the core in D.C. In the 1960's, the Martin Luther King riots were the worst thing ever. In 2012, they are allowing an unprecedented level of development. It's almost like the last 40 years of blight was just waiting for the explosion to rebuild Washington D.C. into a true world renown capital city other nations have had for centuries.
I think D.C. has way more major entertainment districts in the core all next to each other. Think about the distance between Adam's Morgan, Mid City, Shaw, East End, West End, Golden Triangle, Dupont Circle, NOMA, Atlas District, Capitol Riverfront, Southwest Waterfront, L'Enfant Plaza, and the National Mall. D.C.'s core is so compact that its just one big place. When all these area's are complete, imagine the change in D.C.'s Core The districts will bleed into each other forming an amazing destination. It doesn't have to be a competition. D.C. has a core of entertainment that can't be replicated by many places because of their central location.
D.C.'s downtown core is so much larger than Center City in footprint that it is impossible to compare them apples to apples. A comparison that can be drawn is Center City to the East End part of downtown. I don't think the East End as a whole is as vibrant as Center City in Philadelphia "YET". Philadelphia doesn't have an answer for Gallery Place but honestly only New York can beat that strip on a 24/hr rotation. City Center is going to amplify this area into a truly spectacular destination. I think the East End is about 5 years from reaching that type of vibrancy from corner to corner. The F street retail corridor plan is moving forward. City Center is under construction. Mt. Vernon Triangle is building 2,000 housing units. When all that construction is done and new residents are moved in, then I will revaluate the two areas.
Honestly, Center City is just so small compared to the downtown core in D.C. There are so many districts in D.C.'s downtown core being built right now. I don't see how an apples to apples comparison is possible. This comparison is going to be extremly hard in a few years. And streetcars are just going to intensify the development in the core in D.C. In the 1960's, the Martin Luther King riots were the worst thing ever. In 2012, they are allowing an unprecedented level of development. It's almost like the last 40 years of blight was just waiting for the explosion to rebuild Washington D.C. into a true world renown capital city other nations have had for centuries.
I think D.C. has way more major entertainment districts in the core all next to each other. Think about the distance between Adam's Morgan, Mid City, Shaw, East End, West End, Golden Triangle, Dupont Circle, NOMA, Atlas District, Capitol Riverfront, Southwest Waterfront, L'Enfant Plaza, and the National Mall. D.C.'s core is so compact that its just one big place. When all these area's are complete, imagine the change in D.C.'s Core The districts will bleed into each other forming an amazing destination. It doesn't have to be a competition. D.C. has a core of entertainment that can't be replicated by many places because of their central location.
Ok yet, still so many fewer residents spread over a larger area, hence less vibrancy and my point
Also the DT area you call samll also has more worker per sq mile when compared to DC. I just dont see how the continuity of vibrancy with such lessor density will ever match. You may disagree and like the larger footprint. But the larger footprint just spreads fewer people over a larger area, to me dont see it will ever have the cohesive vibrancy, and NO WAY in the next 5 years. I think you are caught up on monotonous continuation and not what is actually happening on the streets But as always we will disagree
On things in the Core, I am not sure you know Center City all that well, directly abutting CC are more good nabes (entertainment areas), much like DC, which in DC I personally prefer to the DT actually. Also there is almost half the population of DC in total within a 15 minute walk of City Hall and 200K residents in the core 5 square miles. DC is half this density today and even with 15K new units will only be 60% the population density; just not enough people and over a larger footprint to make the feel the same.
I know you are enamored by the cranes but Rome nor DC will be built overnight as much as you seem to think so.
Gallery Place isnt all that impressive to me personally, and no way would comparing to NYC make any sense to me, but whatever, you love DC, and while I do love Philly (Actually DC in many ways) I realize there are differences and neither should be discussed in the NYC sense.
And the Center City development in DC. Is that what a few thousands units tops, there are that many in CC Philly under construction. I agree DC is geting better but these projects collectively are not going create the density and foot traffic that already exisits in other cities. While preference is what it is the streets of DC dont and will not have the continuity of vibrancy, which has been my point all along.
Look I am by no means the only one with this opinion, many who live in DC feel similarly, your viewpoint is more the outlier quite honestly
Also it takes more than 2,000 or 3,000 units in a nabe to make a difference honestly, though obviously that will help. And you act as if DC is the only place units; there is quite a bit of catch up in DC in this regard, especially with denisty, the larger footprint means more is required to match the level of activity.
Portland tied with Boston? how
Seattle above Philly?
NO is in no way more urban than Seattle, Phillly, or Boston, it is the scale of St. Louis.
I stand by my lists! I've seen them all in the last 3 years because of my work. I go to conferences and get to explore those cities during my breaks. This is my opinion. The same goes for my opinion of downtown cores, too.
Ok yet, still so many fewer residents spread over a larger area, hence less vibrancy and my point
Also the DT area you call samll also has more worker per sq mile when compared to DC. I just dont see how the continuity of vibrancy with such lessor density will ever match. You may disagree and like the larger footprint. But the larger footprint just spreads fewer people over a larger area, to me dont see it will ever have the cohesive vibrancy, and NO WAY in the next 5 years. I think you are caught up on monotonous continuation and not what is actually happening on the streets But as always we will disagree
On things in the Core, I am not sure you know Center City all that well, directly abutting CC are more good nabes (entertainment areas), much like DC, which in DC I personally prefer to the DT actually. Also there is almost half the population of DC in total within a 15 minute walk of City Hall and 200K residents in the core 5 square miles. DC is half this density today and even with 15K new units will only be 60% the population density; just not enough people and over a larger footprint to make the feel the same.
I know you are enamored by the cranes but Rome nor DC will be built overnight as much as you seem to think so.
Gallery Place isnt all that impressive to me personally, and no way would comparing to NYC make any sense to me, but whatever, you love DC, and while I do love Philly (Actually DC in many ways) I realize there are differences and neither should be discussed in the NYC sense.
And the Center City development in DC. Is that what a few thousands units tops, there are that many in CC Philly under construction. I agree DC is geting better but these projects collectively are not going create the density and foot traffic that already exisits in other cities. While preference is what it is the streets of DC dont and will not have the continuity of vibrancy, which has been my point all along.
Look I am by no means the only one with this opinion, many who live in DC feel similarly, your viewpoint is more the outlier quite honestly
Also it takes more than 2,000 or 3,000 units in a nabe to make a difference honestly, though obviously that will help. And you act as if DC is the only place units; there is quite a bit of catch up in DC in this regard, especially with denisty, the larger footprint means more is required to match the level of activity.
LOL....you do realize that vibrancy is created through the construction of buildings and elements that create a destination for the region. The main problem with center city is the lack of a central arena to provide that. The Verizon Center is the elephant in the room that produces tens of thousands of fans that eat and shop in downtown throughout the year. City Center is going to add to that destination on those nights. Visitors from the region create vibrancy. There is no place with the vibrancy created by an arena in Center City like D.C. That factor is really the tipping point for D.C. In my opinion, the only level of pedestrian traffic I consider vibrant is an event night in Penn Quarter or a Friday/Saturday night in Adam's Morgan or U street in Mid City. If I don't see that level of activity, it's not vibrant in my opinion. Where in Center City is that level of pedestrian activity present?
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