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Lets talk politics. Dallas County which contains more than just Dallas, including may suburbs (Grand Prarie, Irving, Addison, Richardson, Coppell, Carrolton, etc.) voted for Obama this time around and split Bush with Kerry in 2004 (slighty favoring Bush). To say that 3/4 of the Metroplex is evangelical Bush supporters is statistically incorrect (no doubt an emotional outburst from you).
Speaking of an emotional argument, saying it "split" is not accurate. Bush won in Dallas however close it may have been. And do the math. Subtract the population of Dallas county from the rest of the counties that make up the Dallas Metroplex. Nearly 3/4 of the Dallas Metroplex voted Republican.
And speaking of facts, John McCain is not only from Arizona but he lives in Phoenix. I wonder how Dallas would vote if the Republican Presidential candidate was from Dallas. Everyone knows McCain is not a hardcore conservative. The fact is he is called a "Maverick" because he has disagreed with his party in the past and is known as a moderate...hardly George Bush.
Anyone can list statistics but unless you analyze and interpret them it means nothing. Case in point, you mention Dallas Metro has 200K more Hispanics than Phoenix. However, Dallas has 2 million more people yet only 200K more Hispanics than Phoenix. What does that really mean? So Phoenix has a higher PERCENTAGE of Hispanics than Dallas. Furthermore, anyone who lives in Phoenix knows the Hispanic totals are off considering the number of illegals that are not accounted for and Phoenix has much more illegal migration than Dallas due to our closer proximity to the border.
In addition, you falsely assume that because a place has more minorities that they are automatically liberal. Sorry but many African Americans particularly in the South are Southern Baptist and Evangelical. There are also Asian Baptist churches in the Dallas area. Again, these are facts and not anecdotal. Mississippi and Alabama have one of the largest African American populations in the country, does that make them liberal? According to your logic, it does.
And if you want to provide an objective analysis, don't ignore certain facts and include others namely ignoring the fact that Dallas county voted for Bob Dole while Maricopa voted for Bill Clinton. It's obvious, you are making an emotional argument as well by ignoring facts that weaken your argument namely the fact that Dallas is home to Texas Christian University, Dallas Theological Seminary, Brite Divinity School, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (the largest Protestant seminary in the entire world), Criswell College, Southern Methodist University, the conservative Catholic University of Dallas. Several of America's largest megachurches , including the Potter's House, pastored by famous televangelist TD Jakes and First Baptist Dallas, the largest Protestant church in the world. There was literally a church on every corner there. It's an evangelical city to say the least. Dallas and Texas was a part of the conferederacy. None of this is anecdotal. These are facts that you choose to ignore because you want Dallas to be something it isn't. Again, Dallas is a great city but it's conservative.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 07-13-2009 at 05:04 PM..
As a city Phoenix has more Latinos than Dallas (difference of about 30,000), as a Metro Area, its not even close with DFW having many more.
So now you are comparing metroplexes? Previously, you were just comparing Dallas to Phoenix with regard to politics but when the argument favors you, you will include the entire metro. If we are to compare the metro, then Phoenix is more liberal because the Dallas suburbs are very conservative and make up nearly 3/4 of the Dallas Ft. metro. Obviously, you are picking and choosing arguments to satisfy your emotional response.
How people vote in a presidential election is, at best, an uncertain measure of whether they are conservative or what kind of conservative there are - particularly when one of the candidates is a favorite son. It takes about ten minutes in Dallas to realize you are deep in the bible belt. There is a church on every corner, radio stations blasting bible talk at every other stop on the dial, and anti-abortion billboards every ten miles around the city. In contrast in Phoenix, you have to research to find a pentecostal church, particularly if you want one that doesn't meet in an empty shopping mall, every other radio station is salsa music, and I can't remember ever seeing a "social" billboard. Dallas is big enough and diverse enough that you can avoid all that churchy stuff, but in Phoenix you have to look hard to find it.
Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Dallas - except it has no topography of interest. But the flavor there is decidedly different than Phoenix when it comes to religious and social attitudes.
To add to minority populations, the Dallas gay community is actually smaller than Phoenix'. In numbers and in percentage thanks in large part to California migration and mid-Western transplants.
As a member of gay organizations in Phoenix, I can comment that Phoenix is more liberal and accepting than most U.S. cities, especially Dallas. This is from 2006, but the number has grown in Phoenix and shows the sizable gay population here and the citY'S SOCIALLY liberal stance:
"GUIDE TO GAY OLD PHOENIX"
"The Valley's lesbian and gay community is large and thriving, especially in the area of downtown Phoenix. With more than 30 gay bars - more per capita than anywhere in the United States - a growing number of gay-friendly churches, heavily gay residential neighborhoods and plenty of resources and publications that cater to the lesbian and gay demographic, the Valley offers a positive environment to live and work." Guide to Gay old Phoenix
To add to minority populations, the Dallas gay community is actually smaller than Phoenix'. In numbers and in percentage thanks in large part to California migration and mid-Western transplants.
As a member of gay organizations in Phoenix, I can comment that Phoenix is more liberal and accepting than most U.S. cities, especially Dallas. This is from 2006, but the number has grown in Phoenix and shows the sizable gay population here and the citY'S SOCIALLY liberal stance:
"GUIDE TO GAY OLD PHOENIX"
"The Valley's lesbian and gay community is large and thriving, especially in the area of downtown Phoenix. With more than 30 gay bars - more per capita than anywhere in the United States - a growing number of gay-friendly churches, heavily gay residential neighborhoods and plenty of resources and publications that cater to the lesbian and gay demographic, the Valley offers a positive environment to live and work." Guide to Gay old Phoenix
That alone is more than enough reason for most normal people to want to stay out of Phoenix. I rest my case.
That alone is more than enough reason for most normal people to want to stay out of Phoenix. I rest my case.
Why??? Because it is a diverse city with a diverse population in which the gay community is accepted? Sounds like a bigoted statement to me! You can keep your bigotry and hate in those oh so "safe" streets of Vegas!
Why??? Because it is a diverse city with a diverse population in which the gay community is accepted? Sounds like a bigoted statement to me!
It was not a bigoted statement at all. I am saying that being gay is still not generally accepted in most cities. Most straight people, especially Christians, look down on it and do not want to be around it. Look at the whole gay marriage fiasco going on in many states. I am going you a somewhat stupid analogy, but it will make sense. Most normal people do not want to be around alcoholics. If I come on here and say that Las Vegas has the highest percentage of alcoholics, and is more accepting to them and caters to them better than most cities, it is going to turn most people off. That is basically what you did, but in a different way.
It was not a bigoted statement at all. I am saying that being gay is still not generally accepted in most cities. Most straight people, especially Christians, look down on it and do not want to be around it. Look at the whole gay marriage fiasco going on in many states. I am going you a somewhat stupid analogy, but it will make sense. Most people do not want to be around alcoholics. If I come on here and say that Las Vegas has the highest percentage of alcoholics, and is more accepting to them and caters to them better than most cities, it is going to turn most people off. That is basically what you did, but in a different way.
I disagree. I'm straight; I'm married with kids. Most Christians in the SOUTH look down upon it because they ae Evangelicals but many moderate Christians, particularly non-Evangelicals are tolerant of homosexuality. Most people prefer to live near gays or gay communities because they tend to be progressive and wealthy. If you examine cities, the gay areas like West Hollywood are extremely in demand and expensive. In Phoenix, places like Arcadia, Old Town Scottsdale and the Biltmore area tend to have high gay populations and are very much in demand. The fact is the best restaurants, bars and stores tend to congregate around gay communities and people like that.
On the other hand, I've noticed people try to stay away from poor conservative white areas. Look at Mesa, no one wants to live there. Even in Las Vegas, the suburbs surrounding Vegas are ridiculed because they are considered to be W Trash.
It was not a bigoted statement at all. I am saying that being gay is still not generally accepted in most cities. Most straight people, especially Christians, look down on it and do not want to be around it. Look at the whole gay marriage fiasco going on in many states. I am going you a somewhat stupid analogy, but it will make sense. Most normal people do not want to be around alcoholics. If I come on here and say that Las Vegas has the highest percentage of alcoholics, and is more accepting to them and caters to them better than most cities, it is going to turn most people off. That is basically what you did, but in a different way.
Your wording, and how you say ANOTHER reason to not live in Phoenix doesn't sound like someone NOT making a bigoted statement. However, there is fallacy in your "argument" since most people who want to live in a diverse city aren't worried about living next to a dynamic and large gay community. Otherwise, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, and Portland would be labeled as horrible cities because of their diversity. If anything, a dynamic, diverse, and cultured city is one that attracts more people than not. I doubt there are many educated, bigots, from the bible belt that want to live in any major and diverse city.
Your "normal" people statement is infuriating, as if myself and other gays aren't "normal?" Let me tell you what isn't normal, trolling a forum to spread hateful and non-truths about a city you no longer live in. I don't troll the Vegas forum because it isn't of importance or consequence to me. But you troll the Phoenix forum in order to ridicule at whatever chance you get. Then you start typing veiled hate speech! NOT acceptable.
Your wording, and how you say ANOTHER reason to not live in Phoenix doesn't sound like someone NOT making a bigoted statement. However, there is fallacy in your "argument" since most people who want to live in a diverse city aren't worried about living next to a dynamic and large gay community. Otherwise, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, and Portland would be labeled as horrible cities because of their diversity. If anything, a dynamic, diverse, and cultured city is one that attracts more people than not. I doubt there are many educated, bigots, from the bible belt that want to live in any major and diverse city.
Your "normal" people statement is infuriating, as if myself and other gays aren't "normal?" Let me tell you what isn't normal, trolling a forum to spread hateful and non-truths about a city you no longer live in. I don't troll the Vegas forum because it isn't of importance or consequence to me. But you troll the Phoenix forum in order to ridicule at whatever chance you get. Then you start typing veiled hate speech! NOT acceptable.
It sounds like Las Vegas Drunk is an Evangelical because only they still believe that gays are abnormal or that it's a psychological disposition that people choose instead of being born with. You can't really argue with people like him.
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Well said
