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I don't think Puff and Mase killed Hip-Hop, yeah they were different but they could actually rap.
Yeah I agree, I don't think they killed it. I just think the wheels were set in motion by them. But you're right, compared to Souljah Boy and the like at least they could rap. I'm just faulting them for turning hip hop all pop and about money and BS. They didn't kill it themselves, and as I said earlier Puff still came out with quality during this whole process. I just trace the beginning of the whole decline in quality music to that era and the trends they set. That's just my opinion.
I think the end result of the trend they started is what some of the South picked up on. Not that Southern artists sound like them, just the pop sound and the focus of some of their music being just about the money and record sales. Hip hop lost much of its realness as a result of that mentality, and it seems to me Puff was at the forefront of it. And I think he still is right now. He's more about his own ego (by a long shot!) than he is about making quality music.
Don't get me wrong tho. There's plenty of guilt that lies with the South for producing crap. I'm just saying its not ALL on them, and it should be noted that the South has made significant positive contributions to hip hop as well.
No, no. I'm not saying he single-handedly killed hip hop. I'm just saying that the trend towards valuing record sales that come from producing less-than-quality music over having a genuine love for the music began with him. He didn't do this on his own by any means, and he still has produced quality at times since the point I'm referencing. I just think he was at the forefront of the negative trend, that's all. By far most of the damage was done by folks that followed his example.
The South isn't alone in this. Ja Rule is one of the biggest garbage pop rappers of all time, and so is Keak da Sneak IMO.
But I'd rather listen to someone with lyrics AND a good beat than just plain lyrics. People throwing out a bunch of metaphors over watered-down beats isn't good hip hop either in my eyes. We used to call that stuff "walkman music" because its nothing but treble. Its music, so both the lyrics and the beat are important for it to be quality, I think. Of course there can be some exceptions, but generally speaking this is how I feel about it.
I hear what you're saying about the Miami/Southern Bass sound though. That also applies to Jermaine Dupri and his SoSoDef Allstars albums. This type of music has always been a part of hip hop, since 2 Live Crew. I agree that this type of music doesn't do anything to help the state of hip hop and largely brings it down. And the South is the biggest contributor of the bass-heavy party music. But I just don't think the South is alone in bringing hip hop to the low point its gotten to now. Garbage artists from all sides share the blame, as well as consumers making the people who make this crap all rich by buying it.
I actually think the South started their takeover around '98-'99 with No Limit, Rap-A-Lot and Cash Money. Atlanta started to dominate right after that with the whole Crunk thing getting more attention, and then you had other big exposure for the South with the rise of 3-6 Mafia, Trick Daddy and more quality from Outkast. The South has been a force for a while now, and to me it began around the same time that Eminem and DMX were coming up.
As for the cancer that has infected hip hop, I have always felt that it began with Puffy and Mase in '97, immediately following the death of Biggie. They pushed that flashy, no talent, bubblegum crap like no one else and were all about money and record sales over quality. And IMO Puffy's rise to prominence lead to NYC's decline in the mainstream. Jay Z, Mobb Deep and a few others tried to keep it alive, but Puff had already set the wheels in motion. Before that point, Puff had a smaller public presence (even though his role was essentially the same). When he started hogging up the spotlight with Mase/Harlem World, it all went downhill IMO. And all the other quality that existed on his label (Junior MAFIA (aside from little Cease), Lil Kim, Total, 112, Craig Mack, etc.) seemed to slowly vanish.
So I think it began with Puffy, and it slowly gained momentum over time. When ATL's younger generation picked up the reigns, it basically jumped off a cliff to hurry the effects of its slow, painful death. And now we are left with crap from all over the place like T-Pain, Lil Wayne, Souljah Boy, Lady Gaga, Beyonce (now), Flo-Rida, Kanye (good producer but overrated as a rapper IMO), New Boyz, R. Kelly (now he blows), Twista, Jamie Foxx, Hurricane Chris, The Dream and Mims, and have to hear about garbage like ice cream paint jobs, being a jerk and blaming it on the alcohol. Its depressing to look at the current state of hip hop and r&b.
Clear Channel's takeover of 90% of the nation's radio stations and forcefeeding us the music of whoever they decide is supposed to be the hottest at a given moment is also largely responsible. That and MTV making music a low priority as opposed to it presenting us more variety like it used to.
Nah i have to disagree. The south didnt take over too like 2004. In the late nineties it was bad boy, dmx-ruff ryders, big pun, jay-z was red hot, ja rule was hot, busta was hot and a few others. In the early 2000s it was only really luda that i remember really killing it, from the south. Dipset,hov,50cent,fabolous,still ja, a little pun, a little nas with stillmatic and ether and so on. Nyc had it from 97-2004 hands down.
As far as puffy is concerned, i agree with those that say otherwise. He was commercial as hell but he made good pop music. Definently not a cancer. Theres a big differance between the vids nycricanpapi posted and stanky leg, shake your laffy taffy,swag surfing etc. Thus I think the genesis of that type of rap, comes from the south its pioneers being DFL and Dem franchise boys. lol
Nah i have to disagree. The south didnt take over too like 2004. In the late nineties it was bad boy, dmx-ruff ryders, big pun, jay-z was red hot, ja rule was hot, busta was hot and a few others. In the early 2000s it was only really luda that i remember really killing it, from the south. Dipset,hov,50cent,fabolous,still ja, a little pun, a little nas with stillmatic and ether and so on. Nyc had it from 97-2004 hands down.
As far as puffy is concerned, i agree with those that say otherwise. He was commercial as hell but he made good pop music. Definently not a cancer. Theres a big differance between the vids nycricanpapi posted and stanky leg, shake your laffy taffy,swag surfing etc. Thus I think the genesis of that type of rap, comes from the south its pioneers being DFL and Dem franchise boys. lol
Man, you just gave me chills reminding me of Laffy Taffy. And that Stanky Leg one, OMG!! The level of garbage that gets radio play now blows my mind!
I hear ya here. The South has truly taken over more recently, and what has come from there has gotten much, much worse than what they used to give us in the mainstream. And I agree that those videos were exponentially better than the horrid crap you listed (ugh!). I misspoke when I said the South's takeover started back then. I was thinking of those I'd listed and connecting that to where we're at now, but its not like they were putting out more than NYC during that time so I should have made that clear. I just meant that they really started to rise to prominence during that time and the mainstream Southern sound that we have now developed from that era (eg: Cash Money in '99, Luda in 2000, Lil Jon in '01, etc.). But 50 Cent blew in '02 and all those you mentioned were accurate, so the South hadn't really taken over yet.
To be honest, I can't even really pinpoint when the majority of what was actually being played on the radio started coming primarily from the South. Thinking back it seems like I'd hear a lot of it on the radio beginning around the Cash Money era (and preceded by No Limit), but when I think about all those you've listed it seems like a more recent occurence. Either way, the mainstream South that we hear now is a much lower form of music than what the South gave us 10 years ago. I'd take Bling Bling or Project Chick, or even Tootsie Roll for that matter, over Laffy Taffy or Souljah Boy. But even saying that makes me feel like I'm comparing puke to diarhea. I need to throw on The Chronic right now just to clear my mind of all this crap I just poisoned it with by focusing on it all.
Man, you just gave me chills reminding me of Laffy Taffy. And that Stanky Leg one, OMG!! The level of garbage that gets radio play now blows my mind!
I hear ya here. The South has truly taken over more recently, and what has come from there has gotten much, much worse than what they used to give us in the mainstream. And I agree that those videos were exponentially better than the horrid crap you listed (ugh!). I misspoke when I said the South's takeover started back then. I was thinking of those I'd listed and connecting that to where we're at now, but its not like they were putting out more than NYC during that time so I should have made that clear. I just meant that they really started to rise to prominence during that time and the mainstream Southern sound that we have now developed from that era (eg: Cash Money in '99, Luda in 2000, Lil Jon in '01, etc.). But 50 Cent blew in '02 and all those you mentioned were accurate, so the South hadn't really taken over yet.
To be honest, I can't even really pinpoint when the majority of what was actually being played on the radio started coming primarily from the South. Thinking back it seems like I'd hear a lot of it on the radio beginning around the Cash Money era (and preceded by No Limit), but when I think about all those you've listed it seems like a more recent occurence. Either way, the mainstream South that we hear now is a much lower form of music than what the South gave us 10 years ago. I'd take Bling Bling or Project Chick, or even Tootsie Roll for that matter, over Laffy Taffy or Souljah Boy. But even saying that makes me feel like I'm comparing puke to diarhea. I need to throw on The Chronic right now just to clear my mind of all this crap I just poisoned it with by focusing on it all.
Idk but for me i started noticing it around 2004, around the time Ushers confessions album came out. Started noticing that most randb and hip hop were coming from atlanta. From there they just took it and ran with it. Game has gotten worst each year from there.
Idk but for me i started noticing it around 2004, around the time Ushers confessions album came out. Started noticing that most randb and hip hop were coming from atlanta. From there they just took it and ran with it. Game has gotten worst each year from there.
I think it's because you're only 22, right. I think you mentioned that before. Also, you're looking from it at a NY point of view. You was 17 in 2004. In the South and Midwest, Cash Money and No Limit dominated the very late 90s (98-99) along with Ruff Ryders. Cash Money and Ruff Ryders together dominated in 1999. Back that *** up from Juvenile came out in early 1999 and didn't stop playing in clubs and radio stations for a whole two to three years. Maybe even longer. This is when I was 16 and in high school. Not to mention that Aquemini was dominating the streets as well as Stankonia two years later. I will say that Aquemini, It's dark and hell is hot, and 400 degreez was dominating the streets and radio stations in the entire South and parts of the Midwest in 1998. In late 97, you will not go anywhere in the South w/o hearing Master P's Ghetto D. So I think it's a little bit before 2004.
To be honest, I can't even really pinpoint when the majority of what was actually being played on the radio started coming primarily from the South. Thinking back it seems like I'd hear a lot of it on the radio beginning around the Cash Money era (and preceded by No Limit), but when I think about all those you've listed it seems like a more recent occurence. Either way, the mainstream South that we hear now is a much lower form of music than what the South gave us 10 years ago. I'd take Bling Bling or Project Chick, or even Tootsie Roll for that matter, over Laffy Taffy or Souljah Boy. But even saying that makes me feel like I'm comparing puke to diarhea. I need to throw on The Chronic right now just to clear my mind of all this crap I just poisoned it with by focusing on it all.
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Idk but for me i started noticing it around 2004, around the time Ushers confessions album came out. Started noticing that most randb and hip hop were coming from atlanta. From there they just took it and ran with it. Game has gotten worst each year from there.
If you're from the South like me then the answer is the year the majority of stuff being played on the radio was coming from the South was around no later than 96 or 97. Reason being is because Southerners have always loved our Southern music going way back to Luke in the 80's. And radio play for that music has always been strong down here. It's just this decade that the rest of the country got carried away with it as well. The first year I noticed a lot of Southern music on the national scene however was in the early 90's (1992) when Ghetto Boys and OutKast SouthernPlayeristic hit.
OMG people please. Chicago by far. Kanye West, R. Kelly, Common, Lupe Fiasco, Twista (Fastest rapper in the world ) and more. Chicago- Hands Down.
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lol 