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DC's worst years were 1989-1991. The city crime rate was in decline by 1992.
It hadn't declined by enough to make a difference to my point. Englewood still had more gunshot victims in 1991 than DC had for any year in it's history.
It hadn't declined by enough to make a difference to my point. Englewood still had more gunshot victims in 1991 than DC had for any year in it's history.
DC is a very difficult case to compare. The borders are fluid and so is the population when it comes to bad neighborhoods. All of Ward 8 was not bad. Also, many murders happened right outside Ward 8 in inner PG county neighborhoods which would not be counted in Ward 8 stats. The shape of Ward 8 is linear along the river so a lot of the crime is counted for PG County in cities like District Heights, Suiland, Marlon Heights, etc. etc. The population counts you're using don't seem to be accurate because many areas of Ward 8 are wealthy. It's better to go by neighborhood.
On a side note, are you saying people in DC had over a 50% chance they would die if shot back in the 90s? OMG...so glad DC has changed.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 07-16-2017 at 12:16 AM..
DC is a very difficult case to compare. The borders are fluid and so is the population when it comes to bad neighborhoods. All of Ward 8 was not bad. Also, many murders happened right outside Ward 8 in inner PG county neighborhoods which would not be counted in Ward 8 stats. The shape of Ward 8 is linear along the river so a lot of the crime is counted for PG County in cities like District Heights, Suiland, Marlon Heights, etc. etc. The population counts you're using don't seem to be accurate because many areas of Ward 8 are wealthy. It's better to go by neighborhood.
On a side note, are you saying people in DC had over a 50% chance they would die if shot back in the 90s? OMG...so glad DC has changed.
One area of 65,000 in Chicago seen more gunshot victims than the entire District of Columbia. Think about that for a second. Chicago police are tricky in the way they record crime that's why so many people "survived". If you get shot and die from an infection (as a result of the gunshot wound) they do not count it as a homicide even though that's exactly what it is. But the simple fact that more people were shot in an area of 65,000 than in the whole of DC tells me everything I need to know. I honestly don't even see how this debatable. Over 1,500 people shot in a 4 square mile area. That's literally warzone numbers.
Last edited by EducatedBrother615; 07-16-2017 at 01:07 AM..
my father is from springfield, ma. i'm curious to know, do you have any more details on what the city was like during that period in the 90's?
I can't find specific numbers for homicides during that period, but there was a large drug-trade in Springfield in the 1990s and there was a lot of drug violence due to the heroin trade. During that time period there was overall a lot of urban decay even in the downtown area. Overall the city was just having many issues during that time period and Springfield still has challenges concerning poverty, crime and urban decay, but it's crime rates have fallen through the years since its mid-late 90s peak.
Wrong. You can't compare a city of 2.7 million to a city of 600,000. It's more logical to just compare the bad areas of each city. That's why I compared the worst area in DC (ward 8) to the Wentworth district in Chicago. Both areas have a similar population and demographics as far as race. However, the Wentworth district has more murders and a higher murder rate per capita than DC's ward 8. On the other hand, when comparing an even smaller city like East St Louis, you don't have to break it down any further because it's already the right size to compare to a neighborhood in Chicago like Englewood. Same population. Both over 90% black, etc. But Englewood has double the amount of murders.
Wentworth District (pop.65,834)
Murders: 99
Murder rate per capita: 150.3
Ward 8 (pop.86,437)
Murders: 96
Murder rate per capita: 111.0
Englewood (pop.26,121)
Murders: 49
Murder rate per capita: 187.5
East St Louis pop.26,672
Murders: 19
Murder rate per capita: 71.2
First , Your wrong on East St Louis population since we're speaking of the 90s. East St Louis population was in the 40K range and homicides between the 30s & 40s. Again it's a city with communities such South End, Tremont, etc which are highly crime ridden. Just like any city majority of your homicides and shootings happens in those areas. Therefore you SHOULDN'T compare a community to city due to OBVIOUS infrastructure. Community to Community like the other post stated. Englewood to Simple City etc.
First , Your wrong on East St Louis population since we're speaking of the 90s. East St Louis population was in the 40K range and homicides between the 30s & 40s. Again it's a city with communities such South End, Tremont, etc which are highly crime ridden. Just like any city majority of your homicides and shootings happens in those areas. Therefore you SHOULDN'T compare a community to city due to OBVIOUS infrastructure. Community to Community like the other post stated. Englewood to Simple City etc.
You just coming up with anything now. I was talking about East St Louis right now just as an example. Englewood and East St Louis are both 25,000, "infrastructure" doesn't matter at this point you're reaching. Besides, Englewood is the same way. You can look on this map and clearly see the murders in Englewood are concentrated in 3 of 8 police beats in Englewood, 33 of the murders took place in just 3 police beats that are right on top of each other and one beat had 0 murders so what you're saying is irrelevant.
First , Your wrong on East St Louis population since we're speaking of the 90s. East St Louis population was in the 40K range and homicides between the 30s & 40s. Again it's a city with communities such South End, Tremont, etc which are highly crime ridden. Just like any city majority of your homicides and shootings happens in those areas. Therefore you SHOULDN'T compare a community to city due to OBVIOUS infrastructure. Community to Community like the other post stated. Englewood to Simple City etc.
East St. Louis had 67 murders in 1991 and 65 in 1992. Adjusting to population, that's a murder rate of 162 and 156/100k respectively, which I think place it as the city with the highest murders per capita. Englewood most deadliest was 99 murders in 1991 and 80 murders in 1992. Not sure if this included the community area of West Englewood , but going by Englewood alone it results in a murder rate of 204 and 184 respectively. Englewood appears to have been the more deadly of the two, but considering if we were to break ESTL down to the neighborhood level as well, then most likely there are neighborhoods far more deadly per capita than Englewood. However, I can understand why a neighbored is being compared to a city in this case since they both had populations in the 40k range. The difference is that ESTL had a land area 4 times greater than Englewood(not including the adjacent West Englewood area)
You just coming up with anything now. I was talking about East St Louis right now just as an example. Englewood and East St Louis are both 25,000, "infrastructure" doesn't matter at this point you're reaching. Besides, Englewood is the same way. You can look on this map and clearly see the murders in Englewood are concentrated in 3 of 8 police beats in Englewood, 33 of the murders took place in just 3 police beats that are right on top of each other and one beat had 0 murders so what you're saying is irrelevant.
Your using 90s data for Englewood, therefore used 90s data foe East St Louis. Im not reaching just don't compare cities to neighborhoods. Chicago is one of our top big cities in the country so any individual Chicago's community population is equal to thousands of cities of similar size. Just cause they have the same or similar population doesn't justify comparison at that level.
You go on with it though. Any rough East St Louis neighborhood will have higher rate than Englewood in the 90s. Look at the data yourself.
Your using 90s data for Englewood, therefore used 90s data foe East St Louis. Im not reaching just don't compare cities to neighborhoods. Chicago is one of our top big cities in the country so any individual Chicago's community population is equal to thousands of cities of similar size. Just cause they have the same or similar population doesn't justify comparison at that level.
You go on with it though. Any rough East St Louis neighborhood will have higher rate than Englewood in the 90s. Look at the data yourself.
You're so caught up in trying to prove me wrong that you're not even listening to what I'm saying. I'm using recent data for both places. Englewood had 49 murders I'm 2016 with 26,121 people. East St Louis had 19 murders with 26,672 people.
L.A and New York were dangerous in the 7ps and 80s, not the 90s, especially NYC.
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