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I think its laughable to put a city with such an expansive public transportation system like Philadelphia in the same list as sunbelt cities like Dallas, Atlanta, etc. with horrible public transportation and excessive sprawl.
Laugh all you want, but cities like Dallas and Atlanta don't have horrible public transportation. Both cities are in the same league as Philadelphia, which incidentally sprawls just as much as any sunbelt city.
Exactly how many times have you used public transportation in either city? Just curious. Be honest.
Laugh all you want, but cities like Dallas and Atlanta don't have horrible public transportation. Both cities are in the same league as Philadelphia, which incidentally sprawls just as much as any sunbelt city.
Exactly how many times have you used public transportation in either city? Just curious. Be honest.
It is not possible to live in Phoenix without a car. It's one of the most sprawling cities in the US. People would die of heat stroke walking between transit stops and their travel destinations.
Not true, actually...even in July (averaging 107°) the light rail on the Central Ave. corridor in Phoenix ranked as one of the busiest lines, especially on the west coast; averaging over 26,000 daily riders (this is 10,000 riders per day more than Seattle's highest ridership count)...
The suburbs may be "sprawled" but in terms of comparison to the 36 largest metro areas, Phoenix actually ranks as the 10th most dense...
I lived in phx and used the public transit. It was horrid. abysmal. It would take two hours to get to a destination that would normally take 20 minutes by car. I dont disagree that these cities have sufficient transit, but what they do not offer, by any stretch of the imagination is a system that makes it possible to live well. I have lived in these different cities and experienced it myself, there is NO COMPARISON between LA, ATL and PHX and cities like NY, DC or Boston. This isnt a "misconception" as one post labled it, this is based on MY OWN EXPEREINCE. Do you SERIOSULY feel like people are down in LA with voluntarily giving up their cars? "Best cities to go carless" and you list LA????!!!?!?!?!?!? People please, stick up for the facts. This is ABSURD.
When is the last time you "lived" in Phoenix? 2001? It takes less time on the light rail or LINK, RAPID, Express, Orbit, or DASH lines than taking a freeway at rush hour or peak travel times (during pro games/D-Back/Suns/Cardinals)...
Unlike L.A., people in Phoenix have been trading in their cars to live near the transit centers/rail and this has been widely publicized and noticeable...NYC standards, LOL, no way but very livable without a car.
Within a 6 block radius of my apartment in Milwaukee, I can walk to 2 movie theaters, 2 grocery stores, several coffee shops, dozens of bars, dozens of restaurants, 2 pharmacies, a bakery, several bookstores, 2 liquor stores, an optician's office, a dentist's office, a hardware store, 2 head shops, a dog groomer, a yoga studio, a barbershop, a few hair salons, and much, much more. You can't do that in cities like Phoenix, Charlotte, LA, Atlanta, or anywhere in the Sun Belt for that matter, with the possible exception of New Orleans.
I can only share my experience with Atlanta and Charlotte but here goes.
When I lived in Charlotte, well I didn't know about blocks but within the mile and a half radius, 1 movie theater, a large shopping center with bars grocery stores, a few pharmacies, Toy R US(Which is very important to a 8 yr old). a couple different grocery stores, a lot of other stores that I could care less about. My Elementary school were located within walking distance of my neigborhood. If I would of lived there during my HS years I would of walked to HS also. In CLT I lived on the Bus Route 12 which ran back then when there was no Rail 10-20 minute frequencies.
Now that I live in Atlanta its even better. WalMart is less than a mile from my house. Food Depot, the suburban grocery store is even closer. Hospital is about a mile from my house, My sister HS is on the other side of the high school, She walks to school cause she doesnt like riding the school. The corner store, not the gas station, is located around the corner from my apartment complex, Library, office buildings, city offices, elementary school are located in the 1.5 mile radius of my apartment. And I almost forgot that the Super H Mart the best international grocery store in the country is almost literally located across the street from my apartment complex. And the transit here which is decent is on 7-20 minute headways so I always no that a bus is coming, during rush hour I can take the Xpress bus Downtown or to Midtown.
So I guess the life you have in Milwaukee can easily be had in a Sunbelt City. and I am also guessing that some people in Milwaukee need cars because transit is horrible in some areas
You can walk to all of those things in my neighborhood and dozens of neighborhoods across Atlanta.
Perhaps you should try traveling more, or at least research the issue before making such definitive statements
Whatever you say. Five Points and Fairlie-Poplar are probably about the only neighborhoods that could come close to the urbanity of your average Milwaukee neighborhood, to say otherwise would be pretty disingenuous. FYI, new urbanist, town center-type developments aren't the same as real urban neighborhoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcorrales80
Not true, actually...even in July (averaging 107°) the light rail on the Central Ave. corridor in Phoenix ranked as one of the busiest lines, especially on the west coast; averaging over 26,000 daily riders (this is 10,000 riders per day more than Seattle's highest ridership count)...
The suburbs may be "sprawled" but in terms of comparison to the 36 largest metro areas, Phoenix actually ranks as the 10th most dense...
So much for myths and stereotypes.
LOL. When did Phoenix become part of the West Coast? Who mentioned anything about Seattle, because I sure didn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgyeldell
I can only share my experience with Atlanta and Charlotte but here goes.
When I lived in Charlotte, well I didn't know about blocks but within the mile and a half radius, 1 movie theater, a large shopping center with bars grocery stores, a few pharmacies, Toy R US(Which is very important to a 8 yr old). a couple different grocery stores, a lot of other stores that I could care less about. My Elementary school were located within walking distance of my neigborhood. If I would of lived there during my HS years I would of walked to HS also. In CLT I lived on the Bus Route 12 which ran back then when there was no Rail 10-20 minute frequencies.
Now that I live in Atlanta its even better. WalMart is less than a mile from my house. Food Depot, the suburban grocery store is even closer. Hospital is about a mile from my house, My sister HS is on the other side of the high school, She walks to school cause she doesnt like riding the school. The corner store, not the gas station, is located around the corner from my apartment complex, Library, office buildings, city offices, elementary school are located in the 1.5 mile radius of my apartment. And I almost forgot that the Super H Mart the best international grocery store in the country is almost literally located across the street from my apartment complex. And the transit here which is decent is on 7-20 minute headways so I always no that a bus is coming, during rush hour I can take the Xpress bus Downtown or to Midtown.
So I guess the life you have in Milwaukee can easily be had in a Sunbelt City. and I am also guessing that some people in Milwaukee need cars because transit is horrible in some areas
Again, apples to oranges. 1.5 mile radius is a hell of a lot larger than a 6 block radius. If I were to include everything within 1.5 miles I guarantee it would include more than what you listed above. Milwaukee is over 3x denser than Atlanta and over 2x denser than Charlotte. Not at all the same.
LOL. When did Phoenix become part of the West Coast? Who mentioned anything about Seattle, because I sure didn't?
It was a comparison to a city that is stereotyped as very livable without a car and transit friendly (Seattle) to one that isn't typically considered as such (Phoenix)...
Phoenix has, for a very long time, been considered a "West Coast" city...typically this designation has been derived by various definitions of geography but largely Phoenix can be considered a West Coast city rather than an inter-mountain west city. Often it can be described as Southwestern, but there is some debate on that as well; even in Arizona, thus it lies on an invisible line of geography.
I get what they're saying. The closer you live to the lines, the better off you can sustain without a car. You can do this in any city. Does not mean your city is a car city. But you can rely on public transit to get you to most places you really want to go. Buses are buses. They are great but psychologically, people do not like to deal with them.
Again, you can do this is in any city. Dallas, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Portland, w/e.
Are these the best cities you can live without a car? Not even close. But it can be done only if you live close to a transit line.
Now if this thread was about just simply car-free cities, than the answers are easily NYC, DC, Chicago, Boston, and Philadelphia. Maybe San Francisco could be added as well. But that's it.
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It takes less time on the light rail or LINK, RAPID, Express, Orbit, or DASH lines than taking a freeway at rush hour or peak travel times (during pro games/D-Back/Suns/Cardinals)...
