How would you rank these Southern states... (best, largest, place)
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East Texas is the South, but the rest of it isn't. It's a mix of great plains and southwestern. Go to Nacogdoches, and you might as well be in Louisiana or Mississippi. Dallas is kind of a mix between southn and great plains and even a little western influence with the stockyard heritage. Houston is probably the most "southern" of the big cities, but it has so many transplants it doesn't feel like it all the time. Austin is not southern at all - central texas is NOT Scotch-Irish (which is the predominant ancestry of "southerners"). It's german - people are very fastidious there, do not have southern accents, etc. The towns even look different than southern towns - New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, etc.
South Texas - Corpus and the RGV - are its own thing. Definitely not the south, more like part of Mexico since anglos never really settled there.
San Antonio and El Paso are very clearly southwestern.
East Texas is the South, but the rest of it isn't. It's a mix of great plains and southwestern. Go to Nacogdoches, and you might as well be in Louisiana or Mississippi. Dallas is kind of a mix between southn and great plains and even a little western influence with the stockyard heritage. Houston is probably the most "southern" of the big cities, but it has so many transplants it doesn't feel like it all the time. Austin is not southern at all - central texas is NOT Scotch-Irish (which is the predominant ancestry of "southerners"). It's german - people are very fastidious there, do not have southern accents, etc. The towns even look different than southern towns - New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, etc.
South Texas - Corpus and the RGV - are its own thing. Definitely not the south, more like part of Mexico since anglos never really settled there.
San Antonio and El Paso are very clearly southwestern.
Source: Texan.
It is really not that big a deal to me as I'm an Okie living in Texas, but I do know that many (if not all) my Native Texas friends would disagree with much of your assessment of Texas.
I disagree with your list completely. Texas and Georgia equally southern???
I should have split Texas in half. Texas east of Austin would be South[east]ern, and west of Austin would be Southwestern, but the vast majority of people live in East Texas. I also don't really consider the immediate Atlanta area "Deep South," although Savannah and the rest of the state would probablly fit the bill.
I can't do all of these fine states as I have not been to all of them.
Maryland - Parts of southern Maryland I guess one could call southern. But the rest of the state is Mid-Atlantic, IMO. (2/10)
Virginia- With the exception of NOVA, Virginia is very southern. My parents own property in Richmond VA (Chesterfield) and it definitely southern. People wave to you, southern accents are prevalent. And besides Richmond, VA was the capital of the Confederacy. ( 8/10)
North Carolina - Just drove through this state. Would of loved to spend more time in it though. Saw a bunch of New York license plates here. ( 7/10)
South Carolina - First to secede from the Union. (9/10)
Georgia - My home state! It's only Atlanta that's bringing this state's ranking down. (8/10)
Florida - Now Florida is and will always be, a southern state. The smaller towns obviously reflect the southern culture. Even in south florida (Sebring for example) - (5/10)
I don't think the Atlanta area should be considered less Southern because of the arrival of Northern transplants and the urban growth that has resulted from that. The same could be said of Charlotte or Richmond, even Nashville, Huntsville, etc., but surrendering these cities is in a sense admitting defeat, allowing natives and locals to feel uncomfortable in their own territory, and paving the road to cultural genocide.
East Texas is the South, but the rest of it isn't. It's a mix of great plains and southwestern. Go to Nacogdoches, and you might as well be in Louisiana or Mississippi. Dallas is kind of a mix between southn and great plains and even a little western influence with the stockyard heritage. Houston is probably the most "southern" of the big cities, but it has so many transplants it doesn't feel like it all the time. Austin is not southern at all - central texas is NOT Scotch-Irish (which is the predominant ancestry of "southerners"). It's german - people are very fastidious there, do not have southern accents, etc. The towns even look different than southern towns - New Braunfels, Fredericksburg, etc.
South Texas - Corpus and the RGV - are its own thing. Definitely not the south, more like part of Mexico since anglos never really settled there.
San Antonio and El Paso are very clearly southwestern.
Source: Texan.
Yes, it is.
Source? Native Texan (for what it's worth...with apologies to Buffalo Springfield! )
The mistake many people make (and I do NOT mean this condecendingly, as it is only MHO) is to group all but the eastern parts of Texas into a coherent region called the "Southwest" with Arizona and New Mexico. And also, to proceed from the premise that the southeast = The South.
They are simply not the same critters and that dog wont hunt! LOL
Texas (or the vast majority of it..) is a unique sub-region of the American South. Historically and culturally, it has very little in common with the interior Southwest. It comes down to two "Southwests". As a whole, Texas (and most of Oklahoma..at least east of Tulsa and south of OK City) are products of the South. They (we) are "southwestern" in a way totally different from NM and Arizona. It is where the classic South became blended with the frontier era "west"
On the other hand, the interior SW was/is a product of an hispanic/Native American culture and influence, with nothing "Southern" about them.
Now, you do have a good point about Austin and all. BUT...that is due to recent influences (as is true of many large Southern cities), not its history per se. Austin, and even San Antonio, are deeply rooted in the traditions and history of the South.
So far as the midwest/plians influence goes, there are certain topographical similarities with North Texas, but that is as far as it goes.
Central Texas? Well, the German influence is definitetly there. However, the assimilation into the overwhelmingly dominant Scots-Irish southeastern settlement patterns make a big difference too. At least as much as the French-Cajun example do in Louisiana.
I should have split Texas in half. Texas east of Austin would be South[east]ern, and west of Austin would be Southwestern, but the vast majority of people live in East Texas. I also don't really consider the immediate Atlanta area "Deep South," although Savannah and the rest of the state would probablly fit the bill.
To keep repeating my favorite phrase, I see your point, but gotta qubble! LOL
If anything, there are parts of the true SW states (a minor slice of eastern New Mexico) would be influenced by Texas. Not the other way around. Otherwise (sans the trans-pecos area), there is nothing -- even in most of West Texas -- that shares a deep historical/cultural affinity with the southern part of the West. Texas is essentially Southern, and even the hispanic culture and history is "different" than those west of us.
In a nutshell, Texas is Southwest as in "Western South". AZ and NM (and parts of other western states) are Southwest as in "southern West". It just aint the same! LOL
Anyway, since this has come back into being, I am just going to "copy and paste" what I originally wrote on the subject a year or two back. Here it is...with some edits and re-arrangements which have come about over the time of learning more and more about each state...
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Very interesting topic, ranking states according to how one perceives them as "Southern." Here is my own (for the two cents it might be worth! LOL), list. I might mention that, like a previous poster, I am expanding the originally suggested list of states, out to those defined as "South" by the U.S. Census Bureau, as well as Missouri (which in an historical context, has at least SOME claim to being Southern
From least to most, along with my own personal thoughts and opinions:
17. Delaware - (nothing Southern about it other than Census definition)
16. Maryland - (a few Southern aspects, but Census definition is main reason it can be counted as part of the South)
15. Missouri - (southern parts of Missouri have some characterisitcs of the "Mountain South", but for the most part it is a midwestern state)
The above are the states I would consider, to one degree or another, the "least Southern" of all. Next group:
As to the players who have earned the right to suit up?
14. West Virginia - Mountain South that blends with the northern appalachian region of Pennsylvania. In the minds of many, it not having been a Confederate state limits its status as Southern. Too, that a slight majority of residents do not think of the state as Southern and themselves as Southerners. At the same time, my friend Bobilee has done a great job of pointing out that West Virginia has gotten a "raw deal" in this regard. At the very least, no one could consider WV as "yankee"
13. Oklahoma - Strong Southern characteristics generally south of Oklahoma City and east of Tulsa due to influence of Texas and Arkansas settlers. It gets more "midwest" north and west of the line, but the dominant influence is Southern (just google the state meal! LOL). The issue with Oklahoma is that it didnt become a state until the 20th Century. At the same time, the "Indians" of the territory very much allied with the Confederacy. The state is, per capita, a bastion of the Southern Baptist church....
12: Florida -- Historically? Unquestionably Southern. And north of Orlando, is still very much so. Not only Southern, but Deep South Southern. However, the decades long outside migration has considerably diluted a good part of the state's earlier character (very sad).
Now, then, the "second string...in no real order. Just depends:
11. Kentucky - (Had Kentucky truly joined the Confederacy, its status as a Southern state today would probably not be the subject of much debate. On the other hand, mint julips and fried chicken are a state icon, and it is said it indeed DID "join the Confederacy after the War", as evidenced by the fact that it observes a Confederate holiday and statues in memory of the CSA are numerous.)
10. Virginia - (It is hard to think of the birthplace of Confederate heroes such as Robert E. Lee, and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson (to just name the permier), and that the capital of the Confederacy was in Richmond, as being anything BUT Southern. Yet, sadly, northern migration into the northern part of the state has had an impact.)
9. Texas - (As a native Texan, I realize the Lone Star State is a story unto itself. East Texas is where the Deep South begins, and even most of west Texas is influenced and formed by the South. Texas -- as a whole -- is emphatically not the West and or Southwest...in the sense of being grouped with a Colorado or New Mexico. The cultural impact was and remains, very Southern. Still, many things, not of the least of which are demographic trends in terms of migration (legal or otherwise) have diluted Texas, overall, as being considered a totally Southern state).
Again, the states above (the "second team" so to speak! LOL) are USUALLY considered Southern, and the "order" can be re-arranged depending on perspective). Now, for the "starting" lineup! *grins*
8. Arkansas - ( An Upper South state that didn't secede until after Ft. Sumter, but unquestionably Southern, even if a combination of Deep and Mountain South, in character)
7. North Carolina (Upper South that didn't secede until after Ft. Sumter, yet had an absolute history of devotion to the Confederacy when it did. Some parts more Southern than others, but pork BBQ for sure secures its status)
6. Tennessee (The Volunteer state was another one which was reluctant to secede, initially. But anyone who has ever vistited there, especially in Memphis and certain other parts, don't question it being Southern).
5. Louisiana (the northern part of the state is Deep South. The reason I rank it #5 is that there is a heavy Catholic and French Cajun influence in the southern part which, while Southern in its pure way, is not typical of the true Deep South).
4. South Carolina - (The first state to secede, and with the most support within. The ONLY reason it might be ranked as not the "most Southern" is the Colonial influence and its own certain brand of independence. At the same time, South Carolina and the states to follow, are those which most, admirably [IMHO], proudly and without qualm, proclaim their "Southerness")
3. Georgia - Gone With the Wind. The Empire State of The South, epitome of the "Southern accent". ONLY problem is Atlanta nowdays!
2. Alabama - Azaleas, plantations, DEEP Deep South thru and thru. Literally, in all ways, the geographical "Heart of Dixie" whether or not one defines "The South" by the Old Confederacy, or the commonly thought of Deep South states [South Carolina thru Louisiana]. Only reason it is second is that the northern part has more Upper South traits which slightly distinguish it from (drum roll, please)..the winner!
1. Mississippi - (I might mention that this is my own ancestral state, but I dont think that fact influences my opinion. Mississippi combines all things commonly considered "Southern" with very few dilutions at all).
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