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Here's an interesting and relevant anecdote that, at least on some level, relates to this discussion. I just got dropped off by this very pretty and dark haired, mostly old school Yankee friend of mine, someone whose---quite interestingly---last name is quite Irish! Yet the other three quarters of her ancestry is basically comprised of blood lines that go back to both England and Scotland ((mostly England!)).
Though here's what really intrigues me. If handed this survey that inquired as to what her ancestry was, she would simply list either ""American"" or ""English."" For despite the fact that she is one quarter Irish, she does not identify with being anything other than plain American or old school Yankee English ((he pretty features are undeniably English!)).
In fact, I truly believe that she has little save a wee bit of contempt and pure disdain for most local Irish American dudes ((me excepted, though granted I **** her off at times!)), as she is lovely, sweet, very attractive and open minded. Also, she has plenty of culture, and cultural sophistication, YET virtually none of it has any connection to Ireland or the huge local Irish American presence and amazing local preservation of Irish culture.
Her main squeeze, on the other hand, this good and great friend of mine whose last name is MacDonald ((springing from the Scottish side of that famous family!)), is also one quarter Irish ((his mother was of Native American and French Canadian ancestry, while his father is half Irish, half Scottish!)). Though if handed this survey asking the very same question concerning his ancestry, he would gladly and obviously list Irish-American. For my man is definitely down with the Irish ((it's gotta be this guy thing, right???))! He's this hard core, yet super cool, honest and family oriented, Irish guy!
Though his wife, the lovely SQ princess, is---in terms of her overall attitude regarding this particular issue---mostly indifferent when it comes to that little bit of Irish ancestry that she has ((American first and foremost, and that's all that matters!)). Most of her friends out in SQ are of Irish descent, and she's been surrounded by Irish Catholics her whole life, so for better and for worse, she's been heavily influenced by the whole Irish Catholic lifestyle/attitude/emotional baggage.
She grew up out in SQ, and still lives out here, yet she really has little interest in anything Irish or Celtic oriented, and that's fine! She still Rocks!!! This awesome, sweet, classy and intelligent Yankee girl ((with a touch of green!)).
Though her husband---the man, the myth, the MacDonald---tends to have the same attitude, depth of fascination and sensibilities that I have for this whole Irish cultural and habitual traits thing ((he lived in South Boston for 15 years!)). We love it, and embrace much that relates to, and springs from, the Irish cultural template, both local and back in the old sod ((we've both been to Ireland!)).
He is very, very proud and supportive of his Irish ancestry, whereas she is more deeply ambivalent, if not somewhat hostile towards it in some ways
((hey, to each his own! Any ways, she was once briefly involved in this volatile and emotionally unstable relationship with this ""Southie Irish guy"" who drank a lot, and she's always been surrounded by so many bad, ignorant Irish drunks, and she's well read and refined, so maybe that has something to do with her slight contempt.)). It's all good, it's all good!
So, sometimes surveys and other charts detailing the exact percentage of a certain ethnic group or the rough demographics of a certain area usually aren't all that accurate, and are quite relative.
So maybe if all the people living within Philadelphia that are roughly one quarter Irish, and who listed otherwise on such and such a chart, decided to list being Irish as well, there is this good and plausible chance that Philly might actually surpass Boston in this fiercely argued, thrilling and juicy argument over what is America's most Irish big city. Who knows ((Quincy is still number one overall, though, that can't be denied, and most of the SQ Irish are pure, 100%, dyed in the wool Irish!))!
Though, my whole point being, certain surveys, charts and questionnaires regarding the ethnic demographics of a certain city and region can't always be counted on to be even 95% accurate, never mind 100%! Any ways, to each his ((or her!)) own!
There are many people with Irish ancestry in the San Francisco Bay Area, especially in Marin and Sonoma Counties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit
Now, before any Irish FOB complains we should address that we're mostly talking about Irish-Americans who have been in the US for a whiiiile, right? (probably mostly 1848-late 1800s). Although Boston has a fairly significant FOB population it is overwhelmed by Irish-Americans with little connection to the old country (myself included in this bunch)
EDIT: In case anyone doesn't know I mean Fresh Off the Boat.
The Irish began arriving in America much earlier than the 1840's.
Many indentured servants from Ireland, who were collectively referred to as "white slaves," arrived in the newly established American colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries due major labor shortages in the New World.
The Irish female servants were often forced to copulate with African male slaves to produce lighter-colored mulatto slave children, who, in turn, could eventually be purchased by white settlers for considerably less than African slaves. The white settlers also preferred the lighter, more distinct complexion of the mulatto slaves.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if 20-25% of multi-generational blacks living in the United States and Caribbean could trace their mitochondrial DNA back to regions of the world where Irish mtDNA commonly originates (e.g., Doggerland).
Despite the major influx of Protestant Scotch-Irish from the Plantation of Ulster, who began arriving in America in large numbers during the mid-18th century, there were also many Catholic Irish who arrived during this time period as well. Their settlement patterns were consistent with their Protestant brethren (i.e., the colonial back-country).
Then, beginning in the 1820's, the Catholic Irish began arriving in very large numbers to work on major infrastructure projects in the Northeast (e.g., the Erie Canal).
Of course, Irish immigration picked up heavily in the mid-1840's around the onset of the Great Famine and then peaked in the 1850's, but the Irish have had a much longer presence in America than is often believed. A lot of other immigrant groups (e.g., Italians, Poles, Greeks, etc.) have not had a continuous presence in America since its founding.
For example, my great-great-great grandmother was born in New York around 1839-1840, which implies she was probably the child of pre-Famine immigrants. A lot Irish births during the mid-19th century, such as those of some of my ancestors, went unreported in America because the Irish were not used to the strict record-keeping practices that were common among Anglo-Saxons.
I live in Oak Square, Boston. We have a decent number of recent Irish immigrants. Had an Irish roommate too. Several Irish pubs run and staffed by actual Irish too, none of the fake stuff like so many other places in Boston. I think Boston might be the most Irish city overall, but maybe not by as much of a margin as you think. The old Irish Americans in Quincy for example, that feels like more mediocre boring semi suburbia culture than anything. I think you'd notice a stronger Chinese presence in Quincy nowadays than anything Irish.
Boston hands down. It has the highest percentage of Irish of all major cities, they dominate the culture in Boston and most of New England.
also Philly, NYC, Chicago, Baltimore, and Cleveland.
If you go by the top 100 biggest metros, Albany-Schenectady-Troy(58th biggest metro) has the same Irish ancestry percentage as Boston(25.9% according to 2010-2014 census information).
Boston hands down. It has the highest percentage of Irish of all major cities, they dominate the culture in Boston and most of New England.
also Philly, NYC, Chicago, Baltimore, and Cleveland.
It doesn't look like Cleveland has a very large Irish ancestry, at only around 8%. Pittsburgh has close to 16% city, 22% metro. And of course Boston, Philly, NY, Chicago have large Irish ancestry populations. I couldn't find any good data on Baltimore's.
It doesn't look like Cleveland has a very large Irish ancestry, at only around 8%. Pittsburgh has close to 16% city, 22% metro. And of course Boston, Philly, NY, Chicago have large Irish ancestry populations. I couldn't find any good data on Baltimore's.
For Baltimore, 6.33% in the city and 13.18% for the metro.
Out of all the major ciites, Boston has its identity tied up in Irishness more than any other (Boston Celtics, 'Shipping up to Boston', Boondock Saints, The Departed). No other major city (Chicago, NYC, Philly, etc) even comes close in pure Irish propganda even if the reality is far closer.
That's like saying the reality is it's sunny outside, but I believe it's raining, so i'll go with that instead.
Apparently belief and feelings matter more than actual reality.
From Wikipedia
'People of Irish descent form the largest single ethnic group in Boston, making up 15.8% of the population as of 2013.[86] As of 2014, Irish Americans made up 22.8% of the population of the metropolitan Boston area—the highest percentage of any of the 50 most populous U.S. cities—and 21.5% of the population of Massachusetts.[87] Many cities and towns on the South Shore of Massachusetts have high percentages of Irish-descended residents. As of 2010, the most Irish city in the U.S. (regardless of population size) was Scituate, Massachusetts, with 47.5% of its residents claiming Irish ancestry.[88]'
Boston is the most Irish city in the couuntry and Mass is the most Irish state in the nation. And the Boston suburbs are the most Irish cities in the US.
It is Boston hands down. Albany is a tiny city proper in a small metropolitan area. While Boston is a large city proper on its own with an even larger and more Irish metropolitan area. There is really no debate here. And it really does rain in Seattle all the time just in smaller doses.
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