An Outside Perspective- Why Cleveland is Failing Itself (Akron, Dayton: insurance, taxes)

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Where are all these people? The latest lists I've seen show the Cleveland area in the top five in population loss over the past decade.

The people have migrated from Cuyahoga to Lorain, Medina, Wayne, Lake, Geauga, and Portage counties. It's not all that dissimilar to what is happening in Cook county.

[Traveler87]

Please, don't even tell me the assets Dayton brings to the table, because they don't even compete with Cleveland. I am a huge supporter of Dayton, but let's be serious.

[lisa12230]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

I assume you meant, "no one wants to actually say, this is what we want to do."

You don't sound like you have any interest in finding out what Cleveland wants to do, so why should we listen to you? You're only interested in talking about how great Dayton is.

Yeah go to the dayton forum, lol

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

The people have migrated from Cuyahoga to Lorain, Medina, Wayne, Lake, Geauga, and Portage counties. It's not all that dissimilar to what is happening in Cook county.

The Census table I posted shows a 2.6 percent net population loss for Cleveland's MSA -- not for merely the city proper or just Cuyahoga County.

The same table shows a 5.3 percent net population gain for the Chicago MSA.

Please try again.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by andrew61

The Census table I posted shows a 2.6 percent population loss for Cleveland's MSA -- not for merely the city proper or just Cuyahoga County.

The same table shows a 5.3 net population gain for the Chicago MSA.

Please try again.

The MSA (the same statistical area they have used for the past 4 decades) doesn't really represent the entire area very well. The losses in population here have been largely insignificant. Chicago's MSA covers a much wider area than Cleveland's. It's a completely inappropriate comparison.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by lisa12230

Yeah go to the dayton forum, lol

lol yes, such an active forum.

[lisa12230]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

lol yes, such an active forum.

Lmbo!!!!!

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by andrew61

The Census table I posted shows a 2.6 percent net population loss for Cleveland's MSA -- not for merely the city proper or just Cuyahoga County.

Greater Akron, which is not part of the Cleveland MSA, saw a modest population gain. Not enough to outweigh Cleveland's losses, but still worth mentioning I believe.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Greater Akron, which is not part of the Cleveland MSA, saw a modest population gain. Not enough to outweigh Cleveland's losses, but still worth mentioning I believe.

I didn't realize we were talking about Akron here. The statement I was challenging was that so many people are moving "to Cleveland" from elsewhere, or moving "back to Cleveland" from wherever it is that they once escaped to. I asked, "Then why the 2.6 percent population loss -- fifth largest loss in the country?"

I don't know that residents of Greater Akron, on the whole, really think of themselves as "Clevelanders".

Cleveland Collector mentioned, among other places, Medina and Wayne Counties as places people migrated to in a feeble attempt to explain away the Cleveland area's population loss.

Well, I have relatives in Medina County -- and I know people in Wayne County -- who don't really identify with "Cleveland" at all, with maybe the exception of rooting for the city's sports teams. I know for a fact that when they travel, they don't tell people they are from "Cleveland"... instead they say they're from "Akron".

They do not consider themselves Clevelanders. So why should we?

So let me ask again: If so many people are moving to Cleveland, and moving back to Cleveland, how could there be such a large population loss, as reported by the Census Bureau, for the Cleveland MSA for the past ten years?

Let's deal with reality here... instead of moving the goalposts all over the place in an attempt to fool ourselves.

"Oh, they moved to Medina and Wayne Counties, they moved to Greater Akron, and that's all still Cleveland anyway" just doesn't cut it.

[costello_musicman]

^ The biggest changes may be occurring within the past year. I personally moved back in March (although I was not counted in the census), and I know of at least ten professionals who have moved back within the past year.

The census will show a decade of loss, but it is not a current snapshop of today here and now. In fact, I'm willing to bet Cleveland's population is damn close to stablizing within the next year or two. We were hurt from the foreclosure crisis, but the city has recovered.

There us so much of a pro-Cleveland posiitive vibe around town lately that the momentum is undeniable.