Most overextended sports markets list-Cleveland #2 (Columbus, Cincinnati: transplants, how much, buy)

[ZnGuy]

Interesting list showing the cities ability to pay for it's sports team. Denver is number one with Cleveland number 2, which is not a good list to be at top. It basically takes the total personal income in the area (TPI) in calculating the city's ability to afford it's sports teams.
Denver is most overextended market for professional sports - The Business Journals

[Mr216]

This list is dumb how can Green Bay with 1 pro team that is supported well have such a large deficit?.....Also Cleveland doesn't seem to have issues with supporting either of its franchises the Cavs were terrible last year but still averaged 18,000+ for the year, the Browns for the most part sellout each time as well, the Indians even though we have a frugal owner still are surviving and averaging pretty nice crowds lately (remember we used to have the record for most consecutive sellouts) Also we sold out Progressive field at a lot during the '07 season so I call B.S on this article

[gobucks86]

Hey, any reason for the media to crap on Cleveland they'll jump on it.

[ZnGuy]

I think one flaw in this list is they are using "Personal income", which considers how wealthy the area is, but does not consider how much the area's residents spend on sports. I'd suspect towns like Cleveland with strong fan base spend more on supporting their team.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Another flaw is that they obviously assume that only individuals buy tickets and corporations along with other businesses do not. I don't know this for sure, but I would bet that they didn't use NEO as the purchasing base. Anyone who knows the area knows that the 4+ million person area is the actual fan base (and even beyond that). Cleveland, Akron, Canton, and Youngstown chime in at a TPI of nearly $145 billion. Using his own methodology:

Minimum income bases were estimated to be $85.4 billion for MLB, $37.6 billion for the NHL, $36.7 billion for the NFL, $34.2 billion for the NBA, and $15.4 billion for MLS.

Indians - 85.4 billion
Browns - 36.7 billion
Cavaliers - 34.2 billion
Total - 156.3 billion

156.3 - 145 = 11.3 billion under the hypothetical threshold rather than 71 billion.

Once you include the fringe areas in Mansfield and Sandusky, you're right about even. Cleveland's sports franchises also draw from most of the rest of northern Ohio and even as far south as Columbus. We even get people from PA. The area has also proven time and time again that butts will be in the seats as long as the product is good.

The more you look into what he's getting at, the more it becomes obvious that this is just another idiotic "study" done by people who are relatively clueless about the market dynamics of the area and more concerned about making waves than about doing proper analysis.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Another flaw is that they obviously assume that only individuals buy tickets and corporations along with other businesses do not. I don't know this for sure, but I would bet that they didn't use NEO as the purchasing base. Anyone who knows the area knows that the 4+ million person area is the actual fan base (and even beyond that). Cleveland, Akron, Canton, and Youngstown chime in at a TPI of nearly $145 billion. Using his own methodology:

Minimum income bases were estimated to be $85.4 billion for MLB, $37.6 billion for the NHL, $36.7 billion for the NFL, $34.2 billion for the NBA, and $15.4 billion for MLS.

Indians - 85.4 billion
Browns - 36.7 billion
Cavaliers - 34.2 billion
Total - 156.3 billion

156.3 - 145 = 11.3 billion under the hypothetical threshold rather than 71 billion.

Once you include the fringe areas in Mansfield and Sandusky, you're right about even. Cleveland's sports franchises also draw from most of the rest of northern Ohio and even as far south as Columbus. We even get people from PA. The area has also proven time and time again that butts will be in the seats as long as the product is good.

The more you look into what he's getting at, the more it becomes obvious that this is just another idiotic "study" done by people who are relatively clueless about the market dynamics of the area and more concerned about making waves than about doing proper analysis.

The only exception I take with your analysis (which is overall pretty good) is that probably about half of the Youngstown area is Steelers fans and good chunk (maybe at around 25-30%) of the Canton area is, as well. There are some Pirates fans floating around in those areas, too, but nothing to the extent of what the Steelers have.

But overall, what you're saying is on point--the three Cleveland sport teams' fanbases extend almost unabated from parts of Toledo to parts of Erie and from Cleveland to Columbus, with parts of Youngstown mixed in. The Browns even do well in western/southwestern Ohio because for a long time they were the only franchise in the state, and the Cavaliers do well in all kinds of other "non-traditional" places because other nearby big cities such as Cincinnati, Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo do not have teams.

Then again, the author of the list is probably also selling short the fanbase of Denver sports teams (accessing large parts of the Rocky Mountain region) and I would guess probably a great many other fanbases on those lists.

[ZnGuy]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Another flaw is that they obviously assume that only individuals buy tickets and corporations along with other businesses do not. I don't know this for sure, but I would bet that they didn't use NEO as the purchasing base. Anyone who knows the area knows that the 4+ million person area is the actual fan base (and even beyond that). Cleveland, Akron, Canton, and Youngstown chime in at a TPI of nearly $145 billion. Using his own methodology:

Minimum income bases were estimated to be $85.4 billion for MLB, $37.6 billion for the NHL, $36.7 billion for the NFL, $34.2 billion for the NBA, and $15.4 billion for MLS.

Indians - 85.4 billion
Browns - 36.7 billion
Cavaliers - 34.2 billion
Total - 156.3 billion

156.3 - 145 = 11.3 billion under the hypothetical threshold rather than 71 billion.

Once you include the fringe areas in Mansfield and Sandusky, you're right about even. Cleveland's sports franchises also draw from most of the rest of northern Ohio and even as far south as Columbus. We even get people from PA. The area has also proven time and time again that butts will be in the seats as long as the product is good.

The more you look into what he's getting at, the more it becomes obvious that this is just another idiotic "study" done by people who are relatively clueless about the market dynamics of the area and more concerned about making waves than about doing proper analysis.

Interesting assessment but i would think you could say the same for the other cities that their total fan base is not factored in author's calculations, I know this is the case in my city. To me it is an intersting ranking but substantially flawed.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

Interesting assessment but i would think you could say the same for the other cities that their total fan base is not factored in author's calculations, I know this is the case in my city. To me it is an intersting ranking but substantially flawed.

Very few of the carpetbaggers in Greater Charlotte/North Carolina care about the local sports teams.

[ZnGuy]

^well not sure if there are any so called 'carpetbaggers' in CLT as that was a term the southerners used during the Reconstruction era but I will say that the Bobcats will never have a following unless they put a good product on floor. As far as the Panthers go, most of the transplants from different parts of the country here are big NFL fans and the Panthers have a pretty strong following. A lot of the Steeler, Pats, Giant fans here have adopted the Panthers as their 2nd favorite NFL team (as I have) and many have bought PSLs. Browns will always be my number 1 and I have been a proud Browns PSL owner for 25 years .

[CortlandGirl79]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

The only exception I take with your analysis (which is overall pretty good) is that probably about half of the Youngstown area is Steelers fans and good chunk (maybe at around 25-30%) of the Canton area is, as well. There are some Pirates fans floating around in those areas, too, but nothing to the extent of what the Steelers have.

But overall, what you're saying is on point--the three Cleveland sport teams' fanbases extend almost unabated from parts of Toledo to parts of Erie and from Cleveland to Columbus, with parts of Youngstown mixed in. The Browns even do well in western/southwestern Ohio because for a long time they were the only franchise in the state, and the Cavaliers do well in all kinds of other "non-traditional" places because other nearby big cities such as Cincinnati, Columbus, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo do not have teams.

Then again, the author of the list is probably also selling short the fanbase of Denver sports teams (accessing large parts of the Rocky Mountain region) and I would guess probably a great many other fanbases on those lists.

There is definitely a split in the Youngstown area when it comes to football, Canton and Akron to a lesser extent. If you've ever seen the movie Go Tigers! (about Massillon Washington) you'll see a lot of people wearing Steelers gear. You mentioned Erie, but there are also a lot of Browns fans in Sharon/Hermitage and the rest of western Pa. As for baseball and basketball i would say 80% of the people in the Youngstown area cheer for the Indians and Cavs. Oh, and the Pittsburgh Penguins have a pretty decent following here (not a ton of hockey fans), I don't know anyone that's a BlueJackets fan....